are there products that can keep mpb at bay indefinitely?

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by asdf1234, Jul 15, 2012.

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  1. asdf1234

    asdf1234 Member

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    minoxidil app ears to only work for a select number of years. Are there products that can halt mpb? Example, if one takes propecia can they keep mpb at bay?

    also can low testosterone cause mpb and if so can addressing low testosterone stop or reverse hair loss?
     
  2. Benjamin36

    Benjamin36 Member

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    No "real" product can guarantee results. Propecia seems to be the best medication so far, but even that won't work for everyone. The only thing you can do is try it.
     
  3. WillNotLetItHappen

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    Some people seem to be able to halt/slow their hairloss with Fin or Dut since they came to the market (Fin 15 years+). None of us plan to take Fin for the rest of our lives. I think it's fair to say we hope that in the next few years there will be another better treatment option that will let us get off Fin. And there are some exciting developments going on.
     
  4. abcdefg

    abcdefg Senior Member

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    I think right now no but I have high hopes CB or a future treatment by stopping more androgens will be able to.
     
  5. Anyway the hair you lost will not come back, fin is to maintain
     
  6. HairGuru22

    HairGuru22 Member

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    It does clearly for some
     
  7. On thining areas, not compleatly bald
     
  8. asdf1234

    asdf1234 Member

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    that is true. but if youre a responder to products are there any that can hold it off indefinitely? examples: propecia, niz and minoxidil?
    I am not certain that i have mpb just yet. ive been told it looks like it, but there are a few things that make that not make sense. also i have been abusing diphenhydramine for years to the tune of 400-600mg a night and i recently heard thjat can really slow or even halt the production of growth hormone to a large degree which in itself can cause hair loss.
    define cb
    as in if something works, it is likely to stop it from progressing. i heard fin does this for a lot of people, but i could be wrong?

     
  9. WarLord

    WarLord Member

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    Show me a 20-years' study that demonstrates this! Of course, there is none. All you have at your disposal are hysterical posts from internet forums. The internet is flooded by such stupid myths and one wonders, where they actually come from.

    When I started with my anti-hairloss therapy in 1996, I naturally supposed that if the treatment works, and if it always suppresses the same stimulus, it can never stop working and as long as I will use it regularly, it will work indefinitely. And it has been working for nearly 16 years with the same efficiacy, as I predicted. And go figure: I have never regrown any solid hair on 2-5% minoxidil. But as a maintenance drug, it was very reliable, and it protected my hair even during steroid cycles with Winstrol.

    Therefore, when I hear that someone regrew hair on minoxidil, yet after several years it somehow started to disappear, and his hairloss progressed again, I can't grasp it. There are only two possibilities that come on my mind: 1/ He was undisciplined and stopped using it regularly, 2/ He was a hyperandrogenic young man, whose hormones were getting out of control.

    Actually, long-term studies on finasteride identified groups that were at high risk, as for the continuing progression of MPB: Young males, who started to lose hair very early, and those with an advanced Norwood stage. In older men and men with Norwood2 stage, this probability was quite negligible. Therefore, young men with an advanced stage of baldness would have a hard time to stop MPB. And if you read the post on internet forums, you can identify exactly this group of men, who report the highest failure rate: They started to get bald around the age of 20, did nothing for several years, and as late as they observed their balding vertex, they finally started to look for help and whine on internet forums. Some of them even posted their hormonal profile and it shows insane numbers like total testosterone around 1000 ng/dl, and DHT around 100 ng/dl. Naturally, these guys can't expect that they would have success with finasteride, because it will only lower their DHT on the level of average adult men, and their testosterone levels will explode like in a body-builder on moderate doses of steroids.

    And as for minoxidil, one must consider that the officially approved concentrations (2-5%) are still only experimental, sub-optimal for many people, and don't have the same efficiacy like finasteride. This can easily explain the number of people, who failed with minoxidil. But after my experience, I can say that minoxidil works in a similar way like finasteride, i.e. there are large individual differences. In the early long-term studies from late 80's, about one-third of men on 2-3% minoxidil continued to regrow hair even after 4-5 years, while some were losing hair despite minoxidil use. We get the same picture with finasteride: According to Rossi et al. (2011), 14% men worsened during the 10 years of therapy, 65% maintained their hair, and 21% further improved even after 5 years.

    I really don't buy the bull**** that minoxidil works only "for a select number of years". It's just nonsense. Why the hell should it stop working, when it has enough strength to even regrow lost hair? When it regrows hair in people, who have been balding for 1-2 decades, logics says that it can be effective even after 1-2 decades, irrespectively of if these men are balding without minoxidil or using minoxidil. And indeed, there are people, who have been on minoxidil for 20-25 years already! And I belive that the combination of finasteride with minoxidil should guarantee a virtually indefinite success for 90+% men. In any case, if you pass your 30th birthday, you should already be fine, because androgen levels in your body will decrease, and the probability of further hairloss is low.

    I sincerely believe that the picture that we see on this and other internet forums is heavily distorted, and I wouldn't recommend visiting such forums to anybody, who is seriously looking for help, because he will only be depressed by unsubstantied claims of whining, defeatist losers with a lack of determination and discipline. Recently, I even saw posts of guys, who were still losing hair on dutasteride + minoxidil. Do you think that such individuals could be representative? And that you should start to worry about the future of your fight against hairloss? I would say that they are genetic oddballs, whose incidence in the population is 0.1%. The disproportionate accumulation of such oddballs in the internet perversely skews the real efficiacy of current treatments.
     
  10. WillNotLetItHappen

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    Even though I don't agree on all of what Warlord is saying, this is the study he was referring to:
    j.1529-8019.2011.01441.x.pdf


    There is no reason to believe that things deteriorate on Fin after 1 or 2 years, which seems to be another very common myth here on the forums. It is your best weapon in combination with Minox should you need it. And I guess we all wait for other treatment options in the next 3-5 years, because we don't want to take Fin longer than necessary.
     
  11. so many people who took fin with sucsess for more then 10 years, WillNotLetItHappen your a lair,you also claimed that fin gave you diarria
     
  12. WillNotLetItHappen

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    WTF is your problem accusing me of being a liar (I assume that is what you meant with lair)? It did upset my stomach in the beginning, just like any medication would have when your stomach is already in bad shape. Problem is sorted out, took a while to find out, I take 1.25mg and I'm fine stomach wise. So what is your point, what makes you so upset? You don't think Fin can maintain?
     
  13. WarLord

    WarLord Member

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    You are unnecessarily negative. The internet is infected by many outrageous mystifications spread by certain obsessive people, who have never taken the medications on their own. They cherrypick some graph from a 1-2 years' study, take it out of context, and compile their far-reaching theories. Understand, please, that the studies often use "average hair counts", which is a very misleading and deceptive tool. The curve of average hair counts inevitably decreases in almost every study of hairloss treatments, because after 2 years, most patients reach a plateau of their regrowth, and the only important change in the following years is due to non-responders, who continue to lose hair. This means that even if 99% people were keeping their hair after 2 years and only 1% were losing it, the curve on the graph will inevitably decrease! In reality, nearly 90% people keep their hair on finasteride after 10 years, and it is no wonder, because finasteride will lower your DHT on the level of prepubertal children. Have you ever seen a prepubertal child balding? Therefore, I can't stand the crap like "fin buys you 4-6 years" - a completely unfounded fabrication invented by some whining morons. My experience indicates that if the stuff works, it can work forever. I was really shocked, when I visited hairloss forums for the first time, because the people there live isolated in a glasshouse of defeatism, completely separated from the reality, and infect each other with mythologies that have nothing in common with real-life results.

    By the way, Rossi et al. (2011) in the above mentioned study computed that only 4% men with a positive result after 1 year got worse after 10 years. In other words, those, who had bad results, usually had bad results from the very beginning. This again supports my point.
     
  14. 1.you don't use rogaine

    2.you diden tried to lower the dose
     
  15. It's known that you should exprience shedding while on fin, but if you also on rogaine then you regrow, and for some people 1 mg a day is too much and you sound like one of them
     
  16. SuprisedGuy

    SuprisedGuy Member

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    Good post. I started to aggressively lose my hair at 20 (diffuse all over in a NW6 pattern) and I've been on fin/rogaine for almost 3 years. I would fall in that category your talking about of guys who lose it really early yet I've responded pretty well to treatments. My hair recovery peaked at 6-9 months (I have a thread in the success forum) then I lost some density but my hairline is still a NW1.5/2 with my developing bald spot no worse. I guess the odds are stacked against me but I hope your right and I continue to maintain for years.
     
  17. Admin

    Admin Administrator My Regimen
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    Shedding doesn't equate to too much dosage of finasteride. Just to clarify that. Side effects could be an indicator.

    I don't believe he's saying you have to be on Rogaine to regain hair shed from Finasteride. He said that if you happen to also be on Rogaine then you are using a treatment classified as a "Growth Stimulant".

    Hair shed while on Finasteride, in my experience, always comes back. I know many may say otherwise, but without exact hair counts, they have no way of knowing that for sure. The minds eye can be very powerful. And wrong.

    As a general rule, hair shed due to treatments isn't lost hair. Its hair kicked out of growth phase into resting phase. And it will come back. Because hair isn't lost in 1 cycle anyways. Its lost in many, many repeat cycles.

    You don't go bald over night.
     
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