Anyone get limp c*** after switching? Ive been on Propecia for a while, thinking of switching to Avodart. I havent had any sexual sides on Propecia, besides the watery semen for the 1st week. My hairloss has picked up recently, think the regimen needs a new kick.
Anyone who switched from Propecia to Avodart get sides?
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Johnny24601
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It makes no medical sense that one would have horrible sides from finasteride and not from dutasteride. There are simply only two possibilities: 1) There is some sort of dosage/metabilism issue in which the finasteride does was either drastically higher or was simply absorbed at a greater rate or 2) You were experincing mostly (or all) placebo effects on finasteride.
Seriously, one drug block Alpha II and you get sides the other blocks alpga I and II and no sides. This is not right.
It makes no medical sense that one would have horrible sides from finasteride and not from dutasteride. There are simply only two possibilities: 1) There is some sort of dosage/metabilism issue in which the finasteride does was either drastically higher or was simply absorbed at a greater rate or 2) You were experincing mostly (or all) placebo effects on finasteride.
Seriously, one drug block Alpha II and you get sides the other blocks alpga I and II and no sides. This is not right.
not me!
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Medical science is full of anomolies. Your theory that there is no way that one could not have sides with Avodart if he did with Propecia is flawed simply because Avodart is not a more potent form of Propecia; it is another drug entirely.
Let me explain what I mean:
Propecia inhibits a percentage of Type II DHT.
Avodart inhibits an higher percentage of Type II DHT and a high percentage of Type I.
Ok, we knew that already. However,
Since Avodart is a completely different medication altogether and not just a more potent form of the existing Propecia it stands to reason that the chemical composition of Propecia could be what caused his sides, not the DHT inhibition itself. That, or the chemical composition of Propecia exacerbated the very mild (and thus unnoticeable) side effects he may have from inhibiting DHT.
Get it? Those "inactive ingredients" that serve as filler in some medications are not always "inactive."
Nothing is concrete in medicine, as you know. What has one effect in one person can have a totally different effect on another.
This is not to totally exclude the facet of the placebo effect, either. For example, Aplunk could have been more nervous about starting a medicinal regimen for his hair loss when he started Propecia and thus unconsciously attributed otherwise mundane and/or unrelated events to the Propecia. By the time he started Avodart he was more comfortable with the idea of taking an internal DHT inhibitor and therefore less likely to attribute unknown criteria to it. Or it is entirely possible that since he attributed side effects to Propecia and wanted SO MUCH for Avodart to work for him without getting sides that the scenario he wanted plays out for him.
Aplunk, I'm not saying any of that happened to you I just used you for an example.
My point is that the human body, the mind, and its mechanisms are an infinitely complex system. Sometimes trying to figure it all out seems next to impossible.
...yet another reason I said "no thank you" to med school. :lol:
Johnny24601 said:
Medical science is full of anomolies. Your theory that there is no way that one could not have sides with Avodart if he did with Propecia is flawed simply because Avodart is not a more potent form of Propecia; it is another drug entirely.
Let me explain what I mean:
Propecia inhibits a percentage of Type II DHT.
Avodart inhibits an higher percentage of Type II DHT and a high percentage of Type I.
Ok, we knew that already. However,
Since Avodart is a completely different medication altogether and not just a more potent form of the existing Propecia it stands to reason that the chemical composition of Propecia could be what caused his sides, not the DHT inhibition itself. That, or the chemical composition of Propecia exacerbated the very mild (and thus unnoticeable) side effects he may have from inhibiting DHT.
Get it? Those "inactive ingredients" that serve as filler in some medications are not always "inactive."
Nothing is concrete in medicine, as you know. What has one effect in one person can have a totally different effect on another.
This is not to totally exclude the facet of the placebo effect, either. For example, Aplunk could have been more nervous about starting a medicinal regimen for his hair loss when he started Propecia and thus unconsciously attributed otherwise mundane and/or unrelated events to the Propecia. By the time he started Avodart he was more comfortable with the idea of taking an internal DHT inhibitor and therefore less likely to attribute unknown criteria to it. Or it is entirely possible that since he attributed side effects to Propecia and wanted SO MUCH for Avodart to work for him without getting sides that the scenario he wanted plays out for him.
Aplunk, I'm not saying any of that happened to you I just used you for an example.
My point is that the human body, the mind, and its mechanisms are an infinitely complex system. Sometimes trying to figure it all out seems next to impossible.
...yet another reason I said "no thank you" to med school. :lol:
not me! said:
I meant to say 1.5mg.
The reason they shed is because it takes 90 days for dutasteride to build up in your bloodstream at the 0.5mg dose. If you run 1.5mg for 10 days that brings your DHT down to finisteride type levels so you dont shed.
Johnny24601
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Both drugs (finasteride and dutasteride) reduce prostate size through DHT reduction. Both carry the same list of side effects and are prescribed for BPH. Both target DHT and not free testosterone and sexual side effects (which are basically the only sids from both drugs) are most likely caused by testosterone interaction of some kind.
I suppose I should have said it is "highly unlikely" that one suffers sides from finasteride and not from dutasteride. Perhaps the 0.5 mg daily dutasteride is too low or the 1 mg daily finasteride is too high.
My point is simple, since this is a informative website I wanted to point out that if one suffers sides from finasteride then it is likely they will suffer the same sides from dutasteride. I believe it is important to point this out, otherwise people may read Mr. Aplunk's story and switch to dutasteride either on the basis that they had sides from finasteride and they think they will no longer get sides from dutasteride or they may somehow rationalize that dutasteride is a "safer" option because Aplunk reports no sides on dutasteride but sides on finasteride. I conclude with the fact that dutasteride has not been approved to treat hairloss, so use it your own risk. Personally, there are too many unknowns with this drug.
Both drugs (finasteride and dutasteride) reduce prostate size through DHT reduction. Both carry the same list of side effects and are prescribed for BPH. Both target DHT and not free testosterone and sexual side effects (which are basically the only sids from both drugs) are most likely caused by testosterone interaction of some kind.
I suppose I should have said it is "highly unlikely" that one suffers sides from finasteride and not from dutasteride. Perhaps the 0.5 mg daily dutasteride is too low or the 1 mg daily finasteride is too high.
My point is simple, since this is a informative website I wanted to point out that if one suffers sides from finasteride then it is likely they will suffer the same sides from dutasteride. I believe it is important to point this out, otherwise people may read Mr. Aplunk's story and switch to dutasteride either on the basis that they had sides from finasteride and they think they will no longer get sides from dutasteride or they may somehow rationalize that dutasteride is a "safer" option because Aplunk reports no sides on dutasteride but sides on finasteride. I conclude with the fact that dutasteride has not been approved to treat hairloss, so use it your own risk. Personally, there are too many unknowns with this drug.
not me!
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I am aware of what both drugs do and how they do them. I never said that dutasteride is a safer drug or that if one experiences side effects from Propecia that they will not from Avodart. I said that it is possible. The chemical composition of the drugs are different and so different reactions by different people are entirely possible.
I don't agree with the fear that many have about the drug, however, but I'm not goign to get into some "Finasteride vs. Dutasteride" debate with anyone.
If someone is considering using one of these medications then they should read the studies for that drug and filter out the anectodal evidence that breeds hysteria.
Johnny24601 said:
I am aware of what both drugs do and how they do them. I never said that dutasteride is a safer drug or that if one experiences side effects from Propecia that they will not from Avodart. I said that it is possible. The chemical composition of the drugs are different and so different reactions by different people are entirely possible.
I don't agree with the fear that many have about the drug, however, but I'm not goign to get into some "Finasteride vs. Dutasteride" debate with anyone.
If someone is considering using one of these medications then they should read the studies for that drug and filter out the anectodal evidence that breeds hysteria.
Johnny24601
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The weight of evidence supports that if one experienced legit sides from finasteride (not placebo effects) then one will most likely experience the same sides from dutasteride. Is is possible to have sides from finasteride and not from dutasteride, sure....but is it likely, no. When discussing topics like this I think it is important to recognize not only what the possible outcomes could be but which outcomes are more or less likely to occur.
This is not a debate on the legitamacy of the published side effects for these drugs as that is a road that I refuse to go down. I simply wanted to give a rebuttal to Mr. Aplunk's statement that he was experiencing finasteride sides but no dutasteride sides. It would stand to reason that people should do their research before taking any medication, unfortunately (in my opinion) people are very lazy these days and rely on forums such as these far more then they rely on publised scientific reports that can be boring and challenging.
The weight of evidence supports that if one experienced legit sides from finasteride (not placebo effects) then one will most likely experience the same sides from dutasteride. Is is possible to have sides from finasteride and not from dutasteride, sure....but is it likely, no. When discussing topics like this I think it is important to recognize not only what the possible outcomes could be but which outcomes are more or less likely to occur.
This is not a debate on the legitamacy of the published side effects for these drugs as that is a road that I refuse to go down. I simply wanted to give a rebuttal to Mr. Aplunk's statement that he was experiencing finasteride sides but no dutasteride sides. It would stand to reason that people should do their research before taking any medication, unfortunately (in my opinion) people are very lazy these days and rely on forums such as these far more then they rely on publised scientific reports that can be boring and challenging.
Aplunk1
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I'm not encouraging anybody to jump ship.
Johnny, thank you for providing the unbiased opinion that people need.
However, it should be said that the chemical composition ALONE may dictate side effects. Obviously, different chemicals WORK in different ways, producing different results in each person.
While I may have suffered side effects on finasteride, I willingly went onto dutasteride so that I could have a better chance of saving my hair, KNOWING that I might have side effects.
I've been free and clear of any side effects since going onto dutasteride.
Unless you are a doctor, you CANNOT speculate that I SHOULD have side effects on one drug or the other.
Sure, we might all have a simple understanding of 5AR-inhibition, DHT, and free-roaming testosterone, but we CANNOT assume that I SHOULD have side effects.
Here is my message to all of you who are thinking about making the switch from Finasteride (Propecia) to Dutasteride (Avodart):
Take into consideration the side effects of both medications. Both medications are reported to have RARE sexual side effects.
If you have reasonably given finasteride enough time to KNOW if it's working or not, then make a sound judgment.
Dutasteride is not a killer; it's FDA-approved for the same mechanism of action as Finasteride.
Read all the testimonials on this site, so that you can get a feel for what to expect.
Talk to your doctor about making the switch.
(And if you do go onto dutasteride, goodluck!)
I'm willing to answer any questions you might all have, on this thread or through private messaging.
Johnny24601 said:
I'm not encouraging anybody to jump ship.
Johnny, thank you for providing the unbiased opinion that people need.
However, it should be said that the chemical composition ALONE may dictate side effects. Obviously, different chemicals WORK in different ways, producing different results in each person.
While I may have suffered side effects on finasteride, I willingly went onto dutasteride so that I could have a better chance of saving my hair, KNOWING that I might have side effects.
I've been free and clear of any side effects since going onto dutasteride.
Unless you are a doctor, you CANNOT speculate that I SHOULD have side effects on one drug or the other.
Sure, we might all have a simple understanding of 5AR-inhibition, DHT, and free-roaming testosterone, but we CANNOT assume that I SHOULD have side effects.
Here is my message to all of you who are thinking about making the switch from Finasteride (Propecia) to Dutasteride (Avodart):
Take into consideration the side effects of both medications. Both medications are reported to have RARE sexual side effects.
If you have reasonably given finasteride enough time to KNOW if it's working or not, then make a sound judgment.
Dutasteride is not a killer; it's FDA-approved for the same mechanism of action as Finasteride.
Read all the testimonials on this site, so that you can get a feel for what to expect.
Talk to your doctor about making the switch.
(And if you do go onto dutasteride, goodluck!)
I'm willing to answer any questions you might all have, on this thread or through private messaging.
Johnny24601
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That's sound advice Aplunk.
dutasteride is approved for the treatment of BPH but not as a hairloss medication. There are many potential reason for this and I will not speculate. For me, dutasteride is not the right choice right now, for you it is and that is fine (in my opinion) because you have done your research. Good luck
That's sound advice Aplunk.
dutasteride is approved for the treatment of BPH but not as a hairloss medication. There are many potential reason for this and I will not speculate. For me, dutasteride is not the right choice right now, for you it is and that is fine (in my opinion) because you have done your research. Good luck
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