Anyone used Virile Mane??

joeylloyd

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Hello Everyone

I decided to stop using hairloss drugs such as propecia due to side effects I found they caused. I have been reading up on the supplement "Virile Mane" produced by an American company called RPN. The advertising sounds good and there seem to be decent reports of its effectiveness. The link below says the following:

http://www.predatornutrition.com/pd-vir ... e-170g.cfm

"RPN Presents: Virile Mane Hair Growth Stimulator

Before you even get a chance to introduce yourself, you have already been sized up. Though clothes can obscure or accentuate physique, nothing short of a hat or wig can hide a pathetic head of hair. Like it or not, a thick head of hair presents a strong, potent image of manhood.

Age, inflammation, hormonal milieu (both endogenous and exogenous), and other factors of modern life take a toll on a head of hair, leading to thin or even completely bald patches. Short of surgery, treatments previously available have been disappointing and even dangerous. Systemic DHT blockers take a massive toll on muscle growth and hardness, as well as sex drive. Previous topicals have been extremely limited in their effectiveness.

RPN, a company that has come to represent innovation of the highest degree, offers a solution - Virile Mane.

Formulated with scientifically supported ingredients, Virile Mane combines angles to flip a trigger switch that turns on the Anagen Follicle Growth phase, reduces inflammation, increases blood and nutrient flow to the scalp and follicles, and forces the follicle into overdrive. The results? Growth, baby...growth.

Presented in an extremely economical 6 ounce size (designed to last around 6 weeks) for an unbelievable price, Virile Mane finally delivers where other promises were....barren.

Brief scientific Intro:

The hair growth cycle consists of three distinct phases: Telogen, catagen, and Anagen. Active growth cycle is called Anagen, where the follicle – firmly rooted in the dermal layer – engages in active cell division that results in the formation and growth of the hair shaft. As long as this phase is active and unhindered, hair quality is thick and hearty. However, nature works in cycles and what goes up must come down. Anagen phase is followed by catagen phase (think catabolic as opposed to anabolic), and it is exactly what you think it is. The bulbous root drifts upwards and shrinks, losing the sheath that holds it tight. The final insult comes in the form of the telogen phase, where the once strong and proud hair is shed (exogen) , and the follicle goes dormant. Normally, this dormancy signals the scalp to recruit stem cells into development into a NEW follicle which eventually enters anagen phase and the whole happy process continues unabated.

This process is normally overlapping and continuously cycling, giving the perception of a constant unchanging hairline and thick crown…however sometimes things go horribly wrong.

The body, complicated as it is, sometimes gets things “wrongâ€. Sometimes this is caused by imbalance, dietary/nutrient limitation, haywire immune response, inflammation, excessive hormone activity/sensitivity…or it could be a conspiracy by RPN to sell you product. Yes, we are THAT powerful…fear us.

Humans, lacking sufficient instinct to perfectly guide our behaviours, fortunately possess intellect, reason, and an aesthetic ideal that, when combined, can allow us to short circuit undesired natural (and unnatural) consequences. While some don’t mind losing their hair, I have yet to meet someone that DESIRES a head that resembles a worn out sheepskin seat cover. And so we set to searching for the panacea.

While some of the treatments have been mildly effective, the “magic bullet†theory of treatment fails over and over again. In the end what we, in the supplement industry, have figured out is that subtle manipulations of systems and feedbacks can result in far more dramatic results than single approach treatments…which leads us to what you are all interested in seeing – the ingredient profile.

Virile Mane:

The goal when developing this product was to include ingredients that work effectively and synergistically, that have been tested on humans, and to include complementary supplement, nutrition, and lifestyle recommendations to maximize the prevention of hair loss and improve hair growth. Thus, the full writeup will include more thorough background information on the hair cycle, current options for stopping hair loss, and detailed mechanisms of how our product integrates with current research and exploits new and novel hair treatments. A topical delivery system was chosen in able to include effective ingredients that may negatively effect systemic milieu, but are effacious and safe in a local setting.

You may be wondering why our formula has so few ingredients compared to some other products. The reason is three fold: first, there is limited research on topical ingredients for hair growth in humans. Second, there are many regulators in the hair cycle and many remain relatively unexplored. And, because of this, there may be unknown interactions with ingredients that work in similar ways (more is not always better), or work in different ways attacking hair loss on multiple fronts, yet produce unexpected results. There are some examples of these in this writeup. Because of these unknowns, the ingredients we selected have solid research backing and are unlikely to negatively interact.

Despite a multi-billion dollar hair market, only two FDA approved products exist for hair loss: finasteride, and minoxidil. Surprisingly, even these are often not effective and not all of their molecular workings have been elucidated. Both will be explored further in this full writeup. In contrast, there sits human research on other substances that are rarely utilized in the hair market, that offer a similar or greater stimulation of hair growth for less expense.
To understand the causes of hair loss, one must first understand the mechanics of the complete hair cycle. Like most processes in the body, hair follicles follow a cycle of growth and regression. It should be noted, that many of the regulatory factors in the hair cycle are still unknown, and even finasteride and minoxidil were accidental
discoveries. However, recent insights into important molecular players allow us to
intervene in novel ways. Fortunately, many of these discoveries are natural
interventions, thus a over the counter formula like ours can rival or outperform current prescription options.

Ingredients:

Raspberry Ketone
The central and novel ingredient in the formula, Raspberry Ketone, works through the transient receptor potential vanilloid 1 (TRPV1). TRPV1 functions as an integrator of endogenous and exogenous nociceptive stimuli. The painful response from the
consumption of hot peppers, for example, is the result of TRPV1 activation. However,
TRPV1 exists nearly ubiquitously in the body, including skin tissue. The most researched ligand of this receptor is capsaicin, however many endogenous activators and sensitizers exist, such as heat, acidosis, derivatives of arachidonic acid, lipid peroxidation metabolites, and endocannabinoids. It is quite clear from these alone how nutrition and lifestyle can factor into this equation, and this will be further discussed later in the article. With the existance of TRPV1 in the epidermis, hair follicle, sebaceous gland, and some dermal cell populations, the next logical step was to find what it does in these areas.

The full writeup will detail mechanism and cite studies, but the gist of it is that Raspberry Ketones, applied topically in a VERY specific concentration (more is absolutely NOT better…but neither is too little) are able to activate TRPV1, induce CGRP without depleting it, and causing a rapid and pronounced increase in localized Insulinlike Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1) synthesis. In addition, RKs show a pronounced down-regulation of androgen receptors, as well as possibly increasing localized NO (resulting in enhanced blood flow and nutrient delivery). The effect is a pronounced and sustainable stimulation of hair growth.

Apple Polyphenols
The next ingredient(s) that have demonstrated exceptional results in research so far are certain polyphenols, specifically procyanidin oligomers are what are of most interest, which are commonly found in plants such as apples, grape seeds, and barley. They were chosen for this and for their unique mechanism and because there are an number of studies on them.
In 1998 and 1999, Takahashi et al. performed studies on over 1000 plant extracts for hair growth. They found that proanthocyanidins, constituents in grape seeds, induced anagen. The procyanidin oligomers (e.g. B-2) demonstrated better growth promotion than polymers and monomers. Also in 1999, they purified procyanidin B-2 from apples and performed a number of toxicological tests on animals. The tests suggested that irritation and toxicity in a topical test were not an issue even with a high dose.

Procyanidin B-2 was about 220% more effective than procyanidin C-1 at promoting
growth in epithelial cells in vitro, and about equally effective as Procyanidin B-1 and Procyanidin B-3 – which themselves were more effective than Minoxidil. In addition, stimulation of cAMP (and inhibition of PKC – a potent INDUCER of inflammation) are effective at stimulating Anagen phase. Forskolin is a possible future addition to the formula, but at present design dosage is unknown, and using too much would be more harmful than not using it at all.

RPN uses a potent 80% Apple polyphenol extract, standardized to contain a majority of Procyanidin b-2.

L-carnitine-L-tartrate
Last year, a study using carnitine (L-carnitine-L-tartrate) by Foitzik et al. in cultured hair follicles resulted in the downregulation of TGF-beta II, caspase 3 (creatine also does this) and 7 (which initiate apoptosis), and upregulated proliferation of keratinocytes. The theory is that it, like creatine, increases the energy supply to follicles in anagen. Carnitine is also important for mitochondrial health. A dose of approximately 3-4 grams of mixed carnitine salts is recommended for oral administration, however with in vivo evidence in humans supporting the addition in a topical formula, we included it in ours to hit hair growth from every angle.

Rooibos Tea Extract (35% polyphenols)
The next ingredient is commonly drunk as a tea, but its constituents have led to its use for promoting hair growth. One esoteric, unpublished study on humans exists but the mechanisms are also convincing. First, recall the previous antioxidative effects of the procyanidin oligomers and the effects of TGF-beta. Some rooibos tea constituents have similar activity to super oxide dismutase (SOD), one of the body's natural antioxidant enzymes. An independent lab (Dermascan, in France) performed a study for Cosmetochem International using a rooibos preparation. The trial was on 10 women for 90 days and used 5ml of a 10% rooibos lotion versus a placebo. There was a increase in hair growth speed in 89% of subjects. Questionnaire results showed that most subjects saw an improvement: 67% stated hair loss as zero or low, and 78% indicated that they had an improvement of hair growth. While SOD and its mineral components/peptides are patented for hair growth, Rooibos tea is not.

Emu Oil
The last ingredient doubles as an emulsifying agent to thicken the preparation and has evidence for hair growth promotion. Emu oil, also trademarked Kalaya oil, was studied in 1996 by Michael Holick and colleagues at Boston University Medical Center. The mouse model C57 BL/6 was applied with .1 ml of Emu oil for 14 days. The results of this pilot study suggested that there was follicle proliferation to anagen state from telogen.

Virile Mane is the result of 4 years of design work, and an immense amount of thorough research and design by myself and Colby Vorland. Combined with Java Lustre Hair Support Shampoo, and stacked with oral supplements such as Toco-8 by Primordial Performance (a rich source of both mixed tocopherols, as well as the rarer and potent Tocotrienols) and NOxidant by RPN (systemic anti-oxidant formula), Virile Mane promises not only to protect the precious hair you have, but to bring back your long lost friends.

In this age of hormonal manipulation, shoddy poisoning convenience diets, environmental toxins, and constant stress barrages, we need every weapon in our arsenal to reach our aesthetic ideals."

What do the hairloss experts out there think about this product and its usefulness for:

a) an adjunct to prescription drugs
b) as a standalone product with nizoral shampoo and minoxidil only?

Joey
 

monitoradiation

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You can try it if you want; I've heard most of the chemicals before in these forums but even then most around here seem to use them as experimental topicals with a few scientific studies behind them. Certainly nothing proven nor groundbreakingly effective as of yet.

That being said, this product doesn't sound bad, but I don't see any dosage indications nor any ingredient list (percent by volume nor mass) which, with the combination of them bashing finasteride and minoxidil, seems like a big marketing effort that wants to bypass the testing and go straight to the consumer (ie. scam). If it works, great. If not... It probably won't make you lose hair. So it probably doesn't hurt to try it, but at what cost?

I'd stick to the big 3.
 

joeylloyd

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My bad. I left the ingredients etc out becaue I thought the description covered it but they were on the linl. Here they are though:

Virile Mane is available in a 6 ounce dispenser tipped bottle, which should last the average user around 6 weeks.

Active ingredients:

Raspberry Ketones
Apple Polyphenol Complex (standardized for 80% BioActive Procyanidins)
L-Carnitine-L-Tartarate
Rooibos Tea
Emu Oil
Menthol
 

monitoradiation

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Oh nono. I saw it, sorry. I meant like proportions, by either weight or mass... If you still feel like this might do it for you, go ahead; I don't see why it couldn't be good, but at the same time I'd be a little bit cautious.
 

rusty_y2k2

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you followed the big thread at anabolicminds.com? If not it's in the RPN company forum...

I have seen some hairs appear where before there were none, but no real cosmetic thickening yet. I imagine that is mostly due to the fact that I shed like a b**ch for about a month about 4 weeks into starting (could have been the VM, but I've been on minoxidil and finasteride for a year too) and only relatively recently stopped...

I'm optimistic it'll start to show some benefits over the coming months... I probably haven't helped it along much by running an epi cycle this month but what can ya do eh? :innocent:

I highly doubt the ingredients are low dosed... that's not RPN's modus operandi. As a company they have my total faith.
 

joeylloyd

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Wow!!!!!!!!!

Just spent god knows how long reading that. Here is the link for those that missed it:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/recomp-p ... -hair.html

Thanks for the tip rusty.

After all that I am excited to try some. Better not use epistane with that stuff though. Lol, talk about robbing peter to pay paul! Predator Nutrition say they are the official RPN distributors so I will get some and try to stay away from the epistane (lol, featured on the front page of that site funnily enough).
 

monitoradiation

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Hmm, I'm still a little bit iffy; I'd get some to try out, but right now all my money's tied up. If anyone other than rusty's got their hands on it, I'd be glad to hear some feedback.
 

rusty_y2k2

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Oh, just to add - if you're only using this on hairline or crown it'll last way longer than 6 weeks.

I've been using it all over once per day (twice might be okay on hairline only, but more than that and it doesn't leave my hair in a workable state to be honest....) and i just finished my first bottle after just over 2 months.

I still use 5% xandrox in the mornings as it's way more practical for my type of thinning.


Monitoradiation - You are right to be iffy, there are so many useless products out there. I don't think anyone could blame you for being cautious!
 

indie85

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I've been using it for over a month now, not going to post a review of it here until my first bottle is up but so far I'm quietly optimistic.
 

IBM

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I saw it today on elitenet pharmacy. I became very curious. I'm anxious to see news and results about it.
 

beaner

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Those fake "before and after" pictures on the sites selling this would be enough to steer me far clear of this product.

Good luck
 

joeylloyd

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For those who have been using it can you at least specify the kind of results noticed so far?

The guy behind RPN is a very smart guy so if anyone was gonna come up with a natural formula that did something better than folligen etc it would be him imo...
 

dopey

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joeylloyd said:
For those who have been using it can you at least specify the kind of results noticed so far?

The guy behind RPN is a very smart guy so if anyone was gonna come up with a natural formula that did something better than folligen etc it would be him imo...

I'm cautiously optimistic also. I'm just using it around the hairline for 6 weeks. I've gotten some new terminal hair and some vellus turned terminal. I also got 7(!) new terminals in the hard to grow frontal area above the nose.
 

rusty_y2k2

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beaner - fake pics?

My experience was initially my hair looked more healthy (within like a week or two) then started shedding notably more than usual at around 1 month after starting and continued for more or less a month... Pics I took at the end of month 2 showed no deterioration though, despite the increased shedding. I will be keeping an eye on things at the end of month 3, but like i said above i'm just wrapping up an epi cycle so it's not really fair... that said I haven't YET (touch wood) noticed any increased loss from the cycle, but it certainly won't have helped.

The most noticeable effects have been in my hairline - i'm a diffuse thinner, but i do have very slight recession going on. Anyway I had a number of hairs pop up forward of where my hairline currently is (one or two to the extent I actually plucked them out, because they looked stupid and my hairline is never going to move that far forward.... i never even knew it ever WAS that far forward) and my right temple (which is the more receded of the two) has quite a lot of hairs where before there were none. Still not quite thick enough to hide the recession completely but more than minoxidil and finasteride have achieved in the previous year.

Personally I'll definitely be giving it a good 6 months to see what it can do... I wouldn't recommend dropping everything else though if you're already on it. There certainly isn't enough feedback around at the moment to justify that in my opinion! I'm currently on finasteride, 5% xandrox in the mornings, and Virile mane at night and I shampoo with revita and a tea tree, mint and lavender oil conditioner. I am STILL a firm believer that the more pathways you can attack this nonsense through the better your chances.
 

beaner

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Maybe "fake" wasn't the word I was looking for. I'm referring to the very misleading "before and after" pictures taken at different angles and under different lighting conditions to give the illusion of improvement such as the one here: http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/rpn/ ... -6-oz.html

This is very typical of these "miracle" hair loss products and in my opinion there is absolutely no reason for such discrepencies if they're truly attempting to show real results. It makes them look unprofessional at the very least.
 

rusty_y2k2

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hmm, those are new - they must have added them to the nutra site recently....

That's Matt by the way, the guy that owns RPN. I do see what you are talking about, and agree it's unfortunate that the pics aren't more consistent. If you can be bothered there are more of his pics in that big thread that was linked to and you can see some improvements more easily as there are more pics to compare with.

I know he's eager for anyone providing good before and after photo's, so maybe you'll see some better chosen pics before too long.

In the mean time, I definitely do understand your point!
 

joeylloyd

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Well guys it has been 2 weeks now since I have been on Virile Mane. So far my thoughts:

The product itself is very well made and the cream that you apply to your head feels quite nice to massage in. So far my scalp feels healthier and unlike spironolactone cream etc the stuff makes your hair smell nice which is a big bonus since who wants smelly hair!
 

helpmyhair

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I'm gonna get my eyes on this thread as I'm interested in seeing how you guys progress. Rusty and Joey, keep us updated and take pics!

Rusty, it may be harder to tell your progress with it as you are also on finasteride and minoxidil, so who knows what is doing what.
 

joeylloyd

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Just a quick update, this stuff certainly seems to make my hair feel pretty silky. My girlfriend commented on this, so that can't be bad. I will be having a haircut pretty soon so that will give me a better opportunity to assess its effects but so far so good :bravo:
 

helpmyhair

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joeylloyd said:
Just a quick update, this stuff certainly seems to make my hair feel pretty silky. My girlfriend commented on this, so that can't be bad. I will be having a haircut pretty soon so that will give me a better opportunity to assess its effects but so far so good :bravo:

Any chance on taking some pics to track your progress. You'll really know how well its working unless you can look back and compare. Our memory can be pretty distorted in this area.
 
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