Any help for Norwood 6?
- Thread starter motoman
- Start date
beaner
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 45
I don't think you'd be wasting your time.....I think since you lost it so rapidly, you actually may have a decent chance of recovery. They say that you can get up to 7 years of your hair back with current treatments. Take a look at this post...great results: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=21717
I just turned 37 and my hair is probably back to the way it was when I was in my late 20's...maybe less density, but temples as good or better...and still making gains. I say go for it.
I just turned 37 and my hair is probably back to the way it was when I was in my late 20's...maybe less density, but temples as good or better...and still making gains. I say go for it.
I was a NW6 before going on treatments (big 3) in June 2004. Went to NW5 by March/April 2005. If you are a good responder you might move to NW4 or better.
Also, getting any hair from treatments and preserving the sides and the back is important to get a hair transplant in the future.
Also, getting any hair from treatments and preserving the sides and the back is important to get a hair transplant in the future.
beaner, how long was that slick spot slick? parts of my temples have been almost slick for about 3-4 years. One of then gets fuzz in response to minoxidil 5% and then goes lick again when I miss a month. I'm wondering what my odds are on the other temple.
As for spironolactone, I think it is stronger than nizoral, and that this means I don't need nizoral. I'll ask bryan, though. But I don't think you should drop spironolactone because you are on finasteride. If spironolactone blocks 1/3 of receptors, and propecia blocks 70% of DHT, then combined there is the effect of blocking 80% of DHT, and testosterone. Some of your weakest hairs my be able to live at 20% DHT levels but not at the 30%.
As for spironolactone, I think it is stronger than nizoral, and that this means I don't need nizoral. I'll ask bryan, though. But I don't think you should drop spironolactone because you are on finasteride. If spironolactone blocks 1/3 of receptors, and propecia blocks 70% of DHT, then combined there is the effect of blocking 80% of DHT, and testosterone. Some of your weakest hairs my be able to live at 20% DHT levels but not at the 30%.
beaner
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 45
My crown spot was slick in the center for a little while before I started minoxidil, which was four years ago or so.(at least it felt slick and had that shiny look to it) After I started minoxidil, the crown spot started slowly closing in but the slick spot remained slick...sometimes growing fuzz, but shedding it again. Now with the addition of finasteride a lot of the fuzz has gone terminal and the total bald spot is only about 1/3 of it's original size.
The temples started filling in slowly but surely....now even faster it seems since starting finasteride and dosing them with Lee's 12.5 lotion a couple times a day plus spironolactone cream....I would say some of the hair that's been coming in recently was lost about 7-8 years ago so your temples definitely stand a chance.
The temples started filling in slowly but surely....now even faster it seems since starting finasteride and dosing them with Lee's 12.5 lotion a couple times a day plus spironolactone cream....I would say some of the hair that's been coming in recently was lost about 7-8 years ago so your temples definitely stand a chance.
here is a $26 per month regimen that is very powerful. The dutasteride option rases it to $32 dollars per month.
If you really want to make it stronger, you need to add Prox-N, at DrProctor.com.
It is writen for a poor british guy who know nothing about hair loss and I'm not re-writing it, but you will get the info.
You need propecia. It will greatly reduce the odds of you getting prostate cancer, the most common cancer in men. Side effects are rare, go away if you stop, and you should try it first and see if you get any before you worry about them. Asprin has more side effects.
As for propecia, get proscar. The active ingredient is finasteride. Proscar has 5mg, propecia has 1mg. At a regular pharmacy proscar is $90 USD and propecia is 60. You can get these for half the price online without a prescription. Ask Beaner or Goingat20 where they get theirs. Elitenetpharmacy is one place.
1 USD = about 0.6 pounds.
0.2 mg/day regrow 82% as much hair as 1mg/day, which regrows 83% as much hair as 5mg/day. The dose is not important. Cut the Proscar with a $5 pill cutter. Cut it in 8 pieces and take one every other day. That will cost you $90/16 = 6 USD per month. I know you can afford that. This will give you 0.3 mg/day, which will lower you DHT levels just as much as Propecia will.
If you can spend an extra $6, get Avodart at elitenetpharmacy $60 and take one 0.5mg capsule every 5 days. That is as strong as 5mg finasteride per day and will cost you $12 per month, instead of $6 for finasteride.
Of corse get generic Rogaine, which is called minoxidil 5%. If it costs too much over there, order it for $27 for 4 bottles at minoxidildirect.com. Dr Lee is at minoxidil.com. You can get both and use the dr Lee's before you sociallize, but it is ok to use it once a day some days. i think you should put half a mL around your hair line and front sides at night, and then do the normal minoxidil 5% in the morning over most of your top for maintainence. That will be $4 per month for the regular stuff and $18/4 = $5 for the quick drying, totalling $9 per month.
Get nizoral 1% shampoo. It costs $15 dollars per bottle. Find a generic if you can. Wash your hair with a tea spoon 2 times a week. That will last you 14 weeks, which is about $4 per month, and will help keep more hair from shrinking. It is a weak anti-androgen, good for your strong hair but not good enough for the thinning ones. It also will take away any irritation if minoxidil gives you any.
You need copper peptides. These are great for damage control for many post DHT follicle attacks. Buy folligen liquid spray for $30 (Guys, where is the best place to buy it?) Dilute it with water to 1/2 strength. Apply about 2mL to your whole top and hair line one every other day. That should last you 8 months (right guys?) for $3 per month.
If you want to regrow your hairline for sure, you need a strong anti-androgen on just your hairline. I'm not going to take the time writing the directions for making your own spironolactone cream for $10/month because it might be a problem if your girlfriend stays over a lot. Ask Felk if you want directions. I advise you to buy Eucapil for $50 for a month supply. It comes in 2mL glass ampules that you break open. Get some silly puddy and seal them air tight and try to make each one last 4 days, using it only on your hair line. This will drop the cost to $13 per month, and it evaporates in 2 minutes. Do it 3 hours after you shower when your hair is very dry. Go to Eucapil.com.
That comes to $36 USD per month.
If that is too much for you, you should just
* use the minoxidil 5% once a day and maybe twice when you can, skip the dr Lee's, (save $5 per month)
* And apply the eucapil every other day or two days out of three (make sure it does not evaporate on you! seal it good) (save $5 per month)
This brings your monthly cost down to $26 per month,
And if you already suppliment your diet with protein powder, cut back a little and use the money to get arginine bonded to glutamine. You can find it at vitacost.com. I won't explain the biology but you can read about it at drproctor.com. The arginine helps your hair, and the glutamine gets it absorbed better than L-arginine. The glutamine is also a conditionally essential amino acid that you need if you work your muscles VERY hard. You need it for recoveries. So if you workout really hard in the gym, you get two for one. Take 2 grams total per day.
I'm not sure you can regrow your hairline, but you can get your sides.
If you really want to make it stronger, you need to add Prox-N, at DrProctor.com.
It is writen for a poor british guy who know nothing about hair loss and I'm not re-writing it, but you will get the info.
You need propecia. It will greatly reduce the odds of you getting prostate cancer, the most common cancer in men. Side effects are rare, go away if you stop, and you should try it first and see if you get any before you worry about them. Asprin has more side effects.
As for propecia, get proscar. The active ingredient is finasteride. Proscar has 5mg, propecia has 1mg. At a regular pharmacy proscar is $90 USD and propecia is 60. You can get these for half the price online without a prescription. Ask Beaner or Goingat20 where they get theirs. Elitenetpharmacy is one place.
1 USD = about 0.6 pounds.
0.2 mg/day regrow 82% as much hair as 1mg/day, which regrows 83% as much hair as 5mg/day. The dose is not important. Cut the Proscar with a $5 pill cutter. Cut it in 8 pieces and take one every other day. That will cost you $90/16 = 6 USD per month. I know you can afford that. This will give you 0.3 mg/day, which will lower you DHT levels just as much as Propecia will.
If you can spend an extra $6, get Avodart at elitenetpharmacy $60 and take one 0.5mg capsule every 5 days. That is as strong as 5mg finasteride per day and will cost you $12 per month, instead of $6 for finasteride.
Of corse get generic Rogaine, which is called minoxidil 5%. If it costs too much over there, order it for $27 for 4 bottles at minoxidildirect.com. Dr Lee is at minoxidil.com. You can get both and use the dr Lee's before you sociallize, but it is ok to use it once a day some days. i think you should put half a mL around your hair line and front sides at night, and then do the normal minoxidil 5% in the morning over most of your top for maintainence. That will be $4 per month for the regular stuff and $18/4 = $5 for the quick drying, totalling $9 per month.
Get nizoral 1% shampoo. It costs $15 dollars per bottle. Find a generic if you can. Wash your hair with a tea spoon 2 times a week. That will last you 14 weeks, which is about $4 per month, and will help keep more hair from shrinking. It is a weak anti-androgen, good for your strong hair but not good enough for the thinning ones. It also will take away any irritation if minoxidil gives you any.
You need copper peptides. These are great for damage control for many post DHT follicle attacks. Buy folligen liquid spray for $30 (Guys, where is the best place to buy it?) Dilute it with water to 1/2 strength. Apply about 2mL to your whole top and hair line one every other day. That should last you 8 months (right guys?) for $3 per month.
If you want to regrow your hairline for sure, you need a strong anti-androgen on just your hairline. I'm not going to take the time writing the directions for making your own spironolactone cream for $10/month because it might be a problem if your girlfriend stays over a lot. Ask Felk if you want directions. I advise you to buy Eucapil for $50 for a month supply. It comes in 2mL glass ampules that you break open. Get some silly puddy and seal them air tight and try to make each one last 4 days, using it only on your hair line. This will drop the cost to $13 per month, and it evaporates in 2 minutes. Do it 3 hours after you shower when your hair is very dry. Go to Eucapil.com.
That comes to $36 USD per month.
If that is too much for you, you should just
* use the minoxidil 5% once a day and maybe twice when you can, skip the dr Lee's, (save $5 per month)
* And apply the eucapil every other day or two days out of three (make sure it does not evaporate on you! seal it good) (save $5 per month)
This brings your monthly cost down to $26 per month,
And if you already suppliment your diet with protein powder, cut back a little and use the money to get arginine bonded to glutamine. You can find it at vitacost.com. I won't explain the biology but you can read about it at drproctor.com. The arginine helps your hair, and the glutamine gets it absorbed better than L-arginine. The glutamine is also a conditionally essential amino acid that you need if you work your muscles VERY hard. You need it for recoveries. So if you workout really hard in the gym, you get two for one. Take 2 grams total per day.
I'm not sure you can regrow your hairline, but you can get your sides.
collegechemistry,
you can buy folligen from this site. very good service. I pay 40$ for 4 months supply of genuine dutasteride. Get your doctor to prescribe avodart for you. He can write it for 4 months. (The copay is 40$ irrespective of 1 or 4 months).
You are giving very good and detailed advices to newbies and various questions. I hate to say this, but you seem to hell bent on advocating antiandrogen (topical form) for hairgrowth in temples.
I am getting hair growth in temples and my front responded better to finasteride/dutasteride minoxidil and sods. That is the reason why I chose to have grafts placed in the midscalp to vertex and crown.
IMHO, there are not enough studies and proofs to warrant the need for antiandrogens in topical form while using dutasteride or finasteride. Especially for the original poster who is a NW6, topical spironolactone or fluridil won't do much.
(Even this week I observed few more vellous hairs coming out in my NW1 or 2 regions).
you can buy folligen from this site. very good service. I pay 40$ for 4 months supply of genuine dutasteride. Get your doctor to prescribe avodart for you. He can write it for 4 months. (The copay is 40$ irrespective of 1 or 4 months).
You are giving very good and detailed advices to newbies and various questions. I hate to say this, but you seem to hell bent on advocating antiandrogen (topical form) for hairgrowth in temples.
I am getting hair growth in temples and my front responded better to finasteride/dutasteride minoxidil and sods. That is the reason why I chose to have grafts placed in the midscalp to vertex and crown.
IMHO, there are not enough studies and proofs to warrant the need for antiandrogens in topical form while using dutasteride or finasteride. Especially for the original poster who is a NW6, topical spironolactone or fluridil won't do much.
(Even this week I observed few more vellous hairs coming out in my NW1 or 2 regions).
techprof,
you have having great result. I got some good result with minoxidil and finasteride, but i was not consistent with the minoxidil and assumed the front hairs would be too shocked by my grafts to grow back out. but I'm applying it again.
how bald were you in front before you started minoxidil and finasteride? smooth bald? How many years?
i hope you are right about the anti-androgens not being needed, since that would save me money, but since 0.2 mg/day finasteride regrows 82% was much hair as 1mg/day finasteride, which regrows 83% as much hair as 5mg/day finasteride, and dutasteride grows more hair than proscar, and grows more with higher doses, up to 1.6 times as much as proscar at 2.5mg/day, this tells me that inhibiting more DHT means that more of the sensitive hairs can thrive. While some people are affraid of systemic effects, topicals get around that. now you could argue that i spend my money on 0.5mg/day, instead of twice a week with topicals. the topicals take care of other androgens, though.
yeah, but please tell me about your history, or give me a link to your "my story".
you have having great result. I got some good result with minoxidil and finasteride, but i was not consistent with the minoxidil and assumed the front hairs would be too shocked by my grafts to grow back out. but I'm applying it again.
how bald were you in front before you started minoxidil and finasteride? smooth bald? How many years?
i hope you are right about the anti-androgens not being needed, since that would save me money, but since 0.2 mg/day finasteride regrows 82% was much hair as 1mg/day finasteride, which regrows 83% as much hair as 5mg/day finasteride, and dutasteride grows more hair than proscar, and grows more with higher doses, up to 1.6 times as much as proscar at 2.5mg/day, this tells me that inhibiting more DHT means that more of the sensitive hairs can thrive. While some people are affraid of systemic effects, topicals get around that. now you could argue that i spend my money on 0.5mg/day, instead of twice a week with topicals. the topicals take care of other androgens, though.
yeah, but please tell me about your history, or give me a link to your "my story".
in one of the other forums, a Norwood 6 grew back at least 1/3 of his hair using propecia, 1.5mL 2x per day minoxidil 5%, nizoral 2%, copper peptides from american crew, and MSM. I forget which one it was in, but the pictures were very impressive. So yeah, a NW6 has hope. He was loosing his hair since 19, is 36, but lost it faster since 33. that is a pretty cheap regimen if you get the kirkland or equate minoxidil and cut proscar in 4ths.
collegechemistry,
my crown was slick bald for many years ( 5+ perhaps). I had miniaturized hairs on the front and middle part of the scalp to vertex.
Initially vertex responded very well to minoxidil (Norwood 4 to Nw2 in one year just using rogaine).
my story can be found in the following links (the first link is the oldest). Note that my opinion on azelaic acid and Dr. Lee has changed over time (downgraded). My front and hairlines responded better to treatments than the midscalp and vertex.
Also, my widows peak has moved forward ( only due to dutasteride/finasteride as I haven't applied topicals there).
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... ight=story
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... ight=story
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hair transplant=surgery
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=27741
This is my humble opinion on topical AAs. Either they work or they don't work. If they work, they attach to the DHT follicles and they should work. If they work, we should be able to apply over the entire scalp and they should work 100%. If they don't work, then they don't work.
I can't understand how topcial AAs can work selectively (like saying finasteride works against 70% dht, topical antiandrogen working against the remaining 30% is a load of bull).
I insist I haven't seen a single post where the poster has shown with pictures that he went from NW2 + to NW3+ (going up in the Norwood scale) after being on finasteride or dutasteride.
I will be eager to one such case at least. For people starting late (like me) we are basically screwed. The best we can hope for is maintain what we have, grow some peach fuzz (this helps for family pictures) and protect the donor hairs for hair transplant.
my crown was slick bald for many years ( 5+ perhaps). I had miniaturized hairs on the front and middle part of the scalp to vertex.
Initially vertex responded very well to minoxidil (Norwood 4 to Nw2 in one year just using rogaine).
my story can be found in the following links (the first link is the oldest). Note that my opinion on azelaic acid and Dr. Lee has changed over time (downgraded). My front and hairlines responded better to treatments than the midscalp and vertex.
Also, my widows peak has moved forward ( only due to dutasteride/finasteride as I haven't applied topicals there).
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... ight=story
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... ight=story
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hair transplant=surgery
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=27741
This is my humble opinion on topical AAs. Either they work or they don't work. If they work, they attach to the DHT follicles and they should work. If they work, we should be able to apply over the entire scalp and they should work 100%. If they don't work, then they don't work.
I can't understand how topcial AAs can work selectively (like saying finasteride works against 70% dht, topical antiandrogen working against the remaining 30% is a load of bull).
I insist I haven't seen a single post where the poster has shown with pictures that he went from NW2 + to NW3+ (going up in the Norwood scale) after being on finasteride or dutasteride.
I will be eager to one such case at least. For people starting late (like me) we are basically screwed. The best we can hope for is maintain what we have, grow some peach fuzz (this helps for family pictures) and protect the donor hairs for hair transplant.