Analysis of serum zinc and copper concentrations in hair loss

[bornthisway]

Interesting study given how both elements are being discussed on hair loss forums to treat Androgenetic Alopecia.


Ann Dermatol. 2013 Nov;25(4):405-9. doi: 10.5021/ad.2013.25.4.405. Epub 2013 Nov 30.
Analysis of serum zinc and copper concentrations in hair loss.
Kil MS, Kim CW, Kim SS.

BACKGROUND:
It is well known that some trace elements such as zinc and copper play a significant role in many forms of hair loss. However, the effect of zinc and copper in the pathogenesis of hair loss is still unknown.

OBJECTIVE:
The purpose of this study is to evaluate the zinc and copper status in each of four types of hair loss.

METHODS:
A study was carried out with 30 health controls and 312 patients who were diagnosed with alopecia areata (AA), male pattern hair loss, female pattern hair loss and telogen effluvium (Telogen Effluvium) (2008 to 2011; Hallym University Kangdong Sacred Heart Hospital). Zinc and copper serum concentrations were evaluated between controls and each of four types of hair loss patients.

RESULTS:
In all of the hair loss patients, the mean serum zinc was 84.33±22.88, significantly lower than the control group (97.94±21.05 µg/dl) (p=0.002), whereas the serum copper was 96.44±22.62, which was not significantly different (p=0.975). The analysis of each group showed that all groups of hair loss had statistically lower zinc concentration, but not copper concentrations. However, the ratio of the patients with serum zinc concentration lower than 70 µg/dl was significantly high in only the AA group (odds ratio, OR 4.02; confidence interval, CI 1.13 to 14.31) and the Telogen Effluvium group (OR 1.12; CI 1.12 to 17.68).

CONCLUSION:
The data led to the hypothesis of zinc metabolism disturbances playing a key role in hair loss, especially AA and Telogen Effluvium, whereas the effect of copper on hair growth and shedding cycles still needs more study.

PMID: 24371385
PMCID: PMC3870206

 

[Sparky4444]

good find!

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--- i firmly believe that some sort of ionization is at play here that may explain why certain follicles are susceptible, and that the chemical structure of zinc may be of note in this..this MIGHT also be a clue as to why this so-called Pilox in Israel is using zinc as part of the topical treatment/wounding/whatever -- total speculation here...but everything comes down to how atoms bond with other atoms...appears zinc is a player -- and I bet Vitamin D is tied into this somehow as well

 

[DesperateOne]

good find!

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--- i firmly believe that some sort of ionization is at play here that may explain why certain follicles are susceptible, and that the chemical structure of zinc may be of note in this..this MIGHT also be a clue as to why this so-called Pilox in Israel is using zinc as part of the topical treatment/wounding/whatever -- total speculation here...but everything comes down to how atoms bond with other atoms...appears zinc is a player -- and I bet Vitamin D is tied into this somehow as well

We need to apply the correct copper peptide in order to get back the fat, that is the final peice of the puzzle.
Maybe someone can also try topical zinc and let us know what's up, derma roll to get it deep enough.

 

[saintsfan92344]

http://curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=146290 I started looking up topical zinc to see if one type was more effective, found this
at worst its a fairly cheap add on

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doing a little more research this was basically called ZIX, a treatment that was running wild a few yrs back, some people claim to have a lot of regrowth right away then it seemed to go away ??????? interesting to see how it come into play with DR
apparently zinc can deplete copper so a copper peptide might be needed, I am giving it a shot, I only apply minoxidil 1x per day so going to apply this the other,

 

[Sparky4444]

...so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the oldest topical's for sunburns, or burns period, zinc ointment??

...getting back to BBQ burn guy -- after he burnt himself, WHAT was applied to help him heal??? You would HAVE to think that doctors would have put some ointment on the burn....There's no way he just burnt himself and then they left him un-treated...So the $1 million question is what did they apply to his burns??? Zinc ointment?? Could be very, very likely....

....the plot thicken's my friend....this is the final leg -- there is SOMETHING that will kick DR'ing into overdrive....the answer is out there...

 

[Jlyncher]

...so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the oldest topical's for sunburns, or burns period, zinc ointment??

...getting back to BBQ burn guy -- after he burnt himself, WHAT was applied to help him heal??? You would HAVE to think that doctors would have put some ointment on the burn....There's no way he just burnt himself and then they left him un-treated...So the $1 million question is what did they apply to his burns??? Zinc ointment?? Could be very, very likely....

....the plot thicken's my friend....this is the final leg -- there is SOMETHING that will kick DR'ing into overdrive....the answer is out there...

That is a very good point. I can't believe this hasn't been brought up before, we need to find out what was commonly applied to burns at that time...

 

[DesperateOne]

...so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the oldest topical's for sunburns, or burns period, zinc ointment??

...getting back to BBQ burn guy -- after he burnt himself, WHAT was applied to help him heal??? You would HAVE to think that doctors would have put some ointment on the burn....There's no way he just burnt himself and then they left him un-treated...So the $1 million question is what did they apply to his burns??? Zinc ointment?? Could be very, very likely....

....the plot thicken's my friend....this is the final leg -- there is SOMETHING that will kick DR'ing into overdrive....the answer is out there...

Well a lot of the growth the BBQ guy achieved must have been due to the growth factors released after the wound. Maybe he added some vitamin d ointment, it seems the most local thing.

I still think we need to focus on copper peptide, but anyone that does venture into it has to be vey careful in selecting the correct one as it could backfire. I seen a few viles on amazon but they are pricey

 

[saintsfan92344]

the ahk-cu peptide is the one generally accepted to be the most usefull but they have been done to death, they are incredibly important in healing and growth around the follicles, the Zinc results that bornthisway posted have me very interested, maybe zinc and then copper applied at different times because I think zinc interferes with copper absorbtion or vise versa

the copper in the piloxll device is supposed to be copper Ions, I have no idea how to introduce copper ions into the scalp, I think they are made from the current flowing from the device and copper needles

 

[DesperateOne]

Since cu peptide is used for healing, it makes much more sense to apply it about 2-4 days after deep derma rolling or at least after inflamation. Then after maybe the zinc could be applied, one problem is the vehicle and maybe just pg like the others.

 

[Sparky4444]

the study says that copper peptides needs to be looked at more whereas the zinc connection seemed more apparent...BBQ guy would not have had copper peptides applied back then when I doubt anyone had them on the radar...

 

[saintsfan92344]

the study says that copper peptides needs to be looked at more whereas the zinc connection seemed more apparent...BBQ guy would not have had copper peptides applied back then when I doubt anyone had them on the radar...

The guys with AA and Telogen Effluvium had much lower zinc but the copper difference was minimal, my question is why was the zinc lower? If we introduce zinc thru rolling and topically will it even be able to increase the serum zinc locally

 

[saintsfan92344]

I started applying the zinc sulfate b6 mix that is in the link I posted. I apply it in the morning after showering. minoxidil at night. May throw in a light roll -2x a week with it, I am trying to find the best source for ahkcu peptide for a 2x weekly application.
The zix mixture had some early results like most fad treatments, fairly quick claimed growth then ??? Throw in DR and copper peptides to balance out the copper depletion that zinc may cause and maybe it can help long term

 

[DesperateOne]

I started applying the zinc sulfate b6 mix that is in the link I posted. I apply it in the morning after showering. minoxidil at night. May throw in a light roll -2x a week with it, I am trying to find the best source for ahkcu peptide for a 2x weekly application.
The zix mixture had some early results like most fad treatments, fairly quick claimed growth then ??? Throw in DR and copper peptides to balance out the copper depletion that zinc may cause and maybe it can help long term

Yes, that is good, but it like be best for the community if you only try one for 3 months and then add the cu peptide so we ca tell if it was one or the other. Of course it's your hair and you don't have to gamble on only one Easter egg.

 

[Sparky4444]

Yes, that is good, but it like be best for the community if you only try one for 3 months and then add the cu peptide so we ca tell if it was one or the other. Of course it's your hair and you don't have to gamble on only one Easter egg.

I think this whole isolationist thing is bunk --- whatever it takes to get regrowth do it...who gives a crap if it was one or the other..if it works then go with it...

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Yes, that is good, but it like be best for the community if you only try one for 3 months and then add the cu peptide so we ca tell if it was one or the other. Of course it's your hair and you don't have to gamble on only one Easter egg.

I think this whole isolationist thing is bunk --- whatever it takes to get regrowth do it...who gives a crap if it was one or the other..if it works then go with it...

 

[saintsfan92344]

Yes, that is good, but it like be best for the community if you only try one for 3 months and then add the cu peptide so we ca tell if it was one or the other. Of course it's your hair and you don't have to gamble on only one Easter egg.

The main reason for the peptide is zinc may deplete copper, so it may cause another problem so i am just tking precautions, copper peptides really havent shown much on their own and in my mind DR hasnt shown much, I believe that it will be a combined treatment that will ultimately give the best results, the million dollar question is what are those treatments.

Off topic a bit but i have also been looking at minoxidil effectiveness and minoxidil sulfate, sad reality is minoxidil only workd for 38% the other 62% dont have the right active enzymes.

 

[DesperateOne]

The main reason for the peptide is zinc may deplete copper, so it may cause another problem so i am just tking precautions, copper peptides really havent shown much on their own and in my mind DR hasnt shown much, I believe that it will be a combined treatment that will ultimately give the best results, the million dollar question is what are those treatments.

Off topic a bit but i have also been looking at minoxidil effectiveness and minoxidil sulfate, sad reality is minoxidil only workd for 38% the other 62% dont have the right active enzymes.

Well then yes, maybe do both at the same time. What did you plan to use as vehicle?

Yes, whatever it takes but one thing to keep in mind is that not everyone has a lot of money and just buying an extra supplement or topical a month can be a problem. Just saying as I just got laid off and would like to buy these stuff but I can't .

 

[Sparky4444]

I've mentioned this before, but this carries a lot of weight with me ---- For a long while now, I get these patchy, itchy skin episodes that I have to take Reactine for...some kind of allergy or something that my brain is going off half-cocked....I take a Reactine and I'm good for about 3/4 of a week, then it hits again and i have to take another Reactine...

...Now I've only used Tricomin conditioning shampoo for years now -- it's the best and i won't use anything else...I also keep the spray around but with my diffuse thinning it makes my hair a bit more greasy these days so I don't really use it as much...BUT...when I load up the Tricomin spray on my itchy hands and feet when an episode happens -- and I mean soak the hell out of it-- I get relief...it's amazing because NOTHING else will help except taking an anti-histamine....Tricomin does get absorbed into the skin IF you saturate the hell out of it...

....now I don't know what this means, but there's something going on here with these copper peptides because these episodes are ferocious and Tricomin calms it down....I seriously think my scalp is getting hit with this as well, but interestingly enough I don't get scalp itch...it's very strange...

...given CET does do SOMETHING for regrowth, and Tricomin targets my allergic breakouts pretty damn good, I say copper is part of the equation....but Tricomin is expensive....

...I'd be dimes to dollars that Tricomin and zinc ointment would be effective with the DR'ing....I still believe that doctors administered zinc ointment to BBQ guys head when he got burned -- I mean what else would they have put on as treatment??? The key though is you have to saturate the **** out of applying Tricomin, that;s the problem because it is expensive

 

[aj218]

It should also be noted that serum zinc would also depend on the activity of zinc channels and transporters

Could there be a difference in the activity of zinc channels and transporters in male pattern baldness and normal people?

 

[DesperateOne]

I've mentioned this before, but this carries a lot of weight with me ---- For a long while now, I get these patchy, itchy skin episodes that I have to take Reactine for...some kind of allergy or something that my brain is going off half-cocked....I take a Reactine and I'm good for about 3/4 of a week, then it hits again and i have to take another Reactine...

...Now I've only used Tricomin conditioning shampoo for years now -- it's the best and i won't use anything else...I also keep the spray around but with my diffuse thinning it makes my hair a bit more greasy these days so I don't really use it as much...BUT...when I load up the Tricomin spray on my itchy hands and feet when an episode happens -- and I mean soak the hell out of it-- I get relief...it's amazing because NOTHING else will help except taking an anti-histamine....Tricomin does get absorbed into the skin IF you saturate the hell out of it...

....now I don't know what this means, but there's something going on here with these copper peptides because these episodes are ferocious and Tricomin calms it down....I seriously think my scalp is getting hit with this as well, but interestingly enough I don't get scalp itch...it's very strange...

...given CET does do SOMETHING for regrowth, and Tricomin targets my allergic breakouts pretty damn good, I say copper is part of the equation....but Tricomin is expensive....

...I'd be dimes to dollars that Tricomin and zinc ointment would be effective with the DR'ing....I still believe that doctors administered zinc ointment to BBQ guys head when he got burned -- I mean what else would they have put on as treatment??? The key though is you have to saturate the **** out of applying Tricomin, that;s the problem because it is expensive

The original BBQ story was that it was a freak accident and he didn't go to the doctor. He just let it heal by itself, otherwise doctors would of put something and render the hair growth useless. He might of out something himself but who knows.