ADVICE PLEASE, FELLAS

[youngndumb]

i am looking to, in the near future, reverse my hair transplant to the best of modern technology's ability. all i want to do is shave my head-not bicd, but a 1 or blade. my situation now is i have two strip scars on the back of my head, as well as grafts on the temples. im not sure exactly how many grafts were placed, though i will find out, but i dont think it was that many. he put grafts along my "hairline" and about 2 inches back in the temples, which is where my recession was. nothing in the middle top or crown. problem is, despite treatments, im still losing hair. i was at the point where i literally was going to kill myself, and came way to close to that breaking point. i checked myself into a hospital and stayed at a suicide watch ward for the last 2 weeks. now im supposed to go to outpatient therapy, but that's not gonna happen. this website is my therapy, as you guys, well some of you, can relate to my experience, and some of you older guys may have been there and found a way to somewhat reverse the nightmare and move on. well, when i think about it, there's people out there with far worse problems than this, even though it's hard to see that sometimes. i'm treating my depression with drugs, so hopefully it will help me see a light here. im just wondering: from what i've researched, the best way to go about reversing this crap is through a few sessions. first step would be thermal electrolosis on the grafts from what i read. i dont know much about this procedure. can anyone comment? well, after the hairs are zapped, next step would be microdermabration for the cobblestoning, which i do have unfortunately. as far as the different skin pigment due to scar tissue, i believe it helps even that out as well. am i wrong? this is the way to go about getting a natural scalp back, right? anyone done anything like this? if so please let me know. looking for all the help/advice i can get. as far as the strip scars go, i realize at this point there is not too much i can do. however, i am hoping in the future technology will help us with this. Juvista with a trico closure perhaps? that's about 5 years away. in the meantime, i dont want to do a trico closure, because when i get the revision with Juvista(or "if" i should say) i dont want any extra scalp tention to stretch a potentially better revision. FUE is out of the question, because, at some point, strip scars or not, i will need to shave my head below a 1 guard due to my hairloss. they way i see it, and experts help me out here, BHT into the scars to help camo would be the best bet. Of course, i dont know much about it, but i can live with a few scars on my body as opposed to my dome. anyhow, it would be a temporary solution until something better comes along. does anyone know if this is possible? or has anyone done this? does it look ok? what would be the total cost to do this reversal, appx.? would i be screwing myself somehow in the long run? so many questions. any input would be greatly appreciated

 

[DaveOne]

Gald you got through the tough part

Young,

It's good to see you were able to make it through a very chaotic time and hopefully now you can push forward and take control of things.

First of all, many on these forums have been where you are. Hell, when I look back to my first transplant and the state of mind I was in, I wouldn't even consider myself a fully developed, sane person at that time. Was I at fault for getting the transplant? Well, the more I think about it, the more I feel they took advantage of an emotionally distressed, misinformed, highly impressionable young man. So don't be too hard on yourself, the industry has been praying on the young for decades.

This is my first post here, but you can see my posts on the other hairloss site (HLH) as well as some photo documentation (same username). In reference to your situation, you might consider FUE removal of the grafts in your temple area before dermabrasion or laser resurfacing. The FUE removal will help with the cobblestoning, ridging, and pitting more quickly than the resurfacing will. Dr. Cole removed some awful minis/micros from my hairline, and unless you are up really close, you can't really see any scarring. By taking out some of the bulky tissue underneath, the area that is ridged or bumpy flattens out, and the hole is so small it heals to the point where it looks like a pore. Don't confuse this with coring though, as this will leave a more visible scar.

On the fue into donor scar side, I wouldn't waste any scalp hair on the scars. However, if you decide to do some fue removal on your temples, you can take that hair and plant it into your donor scars, to get an idea of how things moght grow there, killing two birds with one stone per se. Some body hair might at least help, but some people claim that FUE yield on newer scars is less than 50%, so keep that in mind. Juvista might be a good option to think about down the road, I'm hoping I might be able to benefit from that as well. I haven't heard of many cases where tricho works with revision. From what I've read, most tricho revisons stretch back over time. I have yet to see pics of a tricho revision a year out from the procedure. Tricho only allows hair to grow in the middle of the scar, but the outer edges can still stretch beyond the middle. With juvista though, the scar formation would be kept to a minimum ideally.

Call me out or PM me anytime with questions. You WILL get your life back. Good luck.

 

[michael barry]

Daveone,

It would seem to me that filling up a zip scar with body hair would be a good option. One does not want to waste donor-wreath area hair on a zip scar in the back, but genereally has alot of body hair that can be placed into that scar for an appearance of hair there. If the body hair is put in there thick enough, the light-colored scar tissue should not be nearly as visible.

Ive noticed alot of guys that repair their old hair transplant's are wisely (my opinion) are getting the first inch or so (especially at the temples) are conceeding this ground to recession. Thats why I bang the drum on here for men losing hair under 30 to just wait for Hair Multiplication. They have too much to lose and can run the risk of a hair island if they dont.


I was reading a post by a guy called HTNONO on another site. Started thinning at 19, got 700 plugs at 21. Now at 26 has to comb hair forward to cover the plugs up front. Knows he has a mess, has been on propecia, bt saw the slow recession anyway. Ive seen this (or things like this) on so many forums. Men, ought to at least be on propecia for a good five years first before they consider surgical work to see if that medication is REALLY keeping them from losing much hair. It only works for 83%, so there is close to 1 in 5 men who have no luck with propcecia, and of the 83% it works for, some have better success than others.


So many rush out in frustration and get hair transplant's when they are young thinking "I'll show my hair who's in charge" psychologically have their lives run by their hair now. Ive read the lament "if only I could just shave my head" so many times from these men on various hairloss websites, that is saddening.

 

[youngndumb]

well obviously i made a stupid mistake, and im pretty sure im not the only person that has made a decision while young that they regretted. bottom line is whats done is done. what can i do now? can anyone answer any of the questions ive asked? looking for experienced people that know what they are talking about, and can give me advice as to what to do now. i didnt know about this site at the time and i wish i did. but im just using this experience as a painful lesson learned. i need to research, and i want to listen to anyone that can help me. i made the mistake of putting my trust in a doctor, but that wont happen again. you guys that are in my position know whats it like, and no dr. can sympathise because they arent the ones being buitchered and living everyday like a freak. guys please let me know some answers.

 

[michael barry]

youngndumbm,

Look at these pictures http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... &mode=full


That man, who in my opinion is making a huge mistake of trying to start filling in that gigantic bald head with body hair (this will cost him at least 70 thousand), would have had some scar tissue and discoloration for sure.

What you have to remember young'ndumb, is that if you can get the skin up there relatively smooth...................they can give you a permanent tatoo (often called permanent make-up) to match your own skin tone. To help heal the skin as best you can....................if I were you I'd buy some copper peptides and emu oil. Spray the peptides (tricomin or american crew or prox-n for instance) and then after a few minutes, put the emu oil on every night. In about a year the scarring should be much better. During this time, you might get the first row of plugs electrolysed out. This will give you a good idea of what the skin underneath looks like. If its been two or three years since your surgery, you probably will have a good idea of what condition the skin underneath is in. If its been less than a year, you probably have a few bumps up there that would lessen in time naturally.

You can get body hair transplanted into your donor scar without further scarring your scalp and that should make that look as good as can be expected. Dr's who do this in N.America are Robert Jones, guy in California named Umar, and a guy in Atlanta named Cole. Im pretty sure a few other docs would be doing body hair by now. Drawbacks to body hair is that although many men's eventually grow long on the scalp, it doesnt' get as thick circumferentially as head hair and may not be as straight. If your going to wear your hair very short, this shouldnt be a problem though.


For a time, if you decide to go the electroylisis route further back and get them all taken out, you might have to wear some real make-up on your head while the peptides and emu help the skin up there.



Hopefully Intercytex is accurate in their prediction that multiplication will be available sometime in 2008 in England. I was thinking an early HM protocol will be available by 2010 or so here in the states. We will see. If you can style your hair in bangs for a few more years you might be alright once this is here.

Youre definitely not alone. Many men who wear wigs do so for the same problem you have. They transplanted young, the propecia didnt stop their hairloss and they continued to bald. They have hair islands up front and docs that tell them that they just need more. There are some ethical docs out there and there are guys who just dont care. Getting plugs young puts you at the risk of what your going through.

Getting the plugs out with lasers or electrolysis and doing the dermabrasion and make-up is one route.


Getting more plugs and having the ones you have broken up into smaller units is another route.

A combination of getting the foreward most plugs taken out and a mature hairline made is another route

Continue with finasteride and wearing a wig for a few years until HM is available is another route.



Thats about the four ways out of this. The fifth way is to continue on propecia, and I'd advise using a peptide and emu with it and try and hold onto the hair you have for a few more years and see about HM is the last possible alternative.


You need to buy a good mirror and spend some time in a well lit bathroom and really go over your head, look at the scarring, get a magnifying glass and go over the scarring, meet with some plastic surgeons and go over the scarring and get their best advice. The descision is up to you......................................

I do, however, hope you log onto hairlosshelp and hairsite and regrowth and take about one hour of your time youngndumb and tell others about the situation you are in, how old you were, how many plugs you got, describe your strip scar, etc. Especially describe how propecia might have slowed your loss, but OBVIOUSLY didnt stop it. Young men need to be forewarned to try and fight their hairloss (if it bothers) them with treatments for a few years before they even consider surgery. I personally think young men under thirty who are losing hair arent long term candidates for transplants and need to wait for cloning as they will not have enough donor hair for a good result long term (thinnish hair that anyone could spot).


Those 5 options are about everything you could possibly do.

 

[DaveOne]

YnD,

How bad is your hairline? If it is pitted and bumpy then fue removal of the bad grafts can often do a lot more to level the skin in one shot than dermabrasion will in multiple sessions. After the graft removal, you can use dermabrasion/laser resurfacing to smooth things out even further if you want. But, I've heard that dermabrasion and laser can change the skin pigment to a certain extent.

It really all depends on what's going on with your scalp. Electrolysis won't do anything but remove the hair- the fatty tissue that was stuffed into your scalp when the hair was implanted will remain underneath. You will also lose the graft, which you could have planted into the scars. Dermabrasion will smooth it out to an extent, but once again, it depends on how bad it is. The best way to remove the bulkiness under the scalp is to Fue out the follicle and some of the fat surrounding it, which will relieve some of the pressure and flatten out the area; the other option is steroid injections, which will atrophy the fatty tissue underneath, and level things off, but you have to be careful because it can go in the reverse direction and create a ditch.

There is a section dedicated to this very topic here:

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/cate ... zb=1225666

The problem with repair is there is no one right answer, and it is much more time consuming and expensive in most cases than getting the hair transplant. Check out some of the posts by trepidation and others..lots of info to soak up. Some guys over there have had success with electrolysis and dermabrasion, so this might help you.

As far as BHT into the scar, it might require 500-1000 bhts to get down to a 1 or 2 guard, maybe more, but it is highly variable. you wont be able to get below a 1 without detection in most cases. There was a case where a guy got 2000 bht into his scar a month or two ago. At the rate that Doctor was charging, that cost him 10k. Other docs might charge up to 15k for bht grafts. Should be able to find some pics of scar grafting over there as well. There are guys over there with shaved heads and grafts planted into the scars and while the scars are improved, they are still detectable shaved. You might keep a 1 or 2 guard as a realistic goal for the short term.

I've been researching this for a long time, and I can tell you there is no right answer for each person. You have to think hard about what you want and figure out how you can get there the easiest, cheapest, quickest, and with the best result. It's a balancing act. It can cost you anywhere from a couple thousand for multiple dermabrasion/electrolysis treatments, or it can cost quite a lot more. To make sure you are not screwing yourself in the long run, you need to take your time and focus. A combination of different treatments is often necessary. Talk to some dermatologists that have experience with this. Talk to some hair transplant clinics that have experience with scar grafting and graft removal. Learn about what you can expect. Consider doing small test sessions to see how things might turn out first. Most of the information I've rcv'd from guys who have firsthand experience came from the link I gave you. Good luck. [/url]

 

[CCS]

post surgery nightmare

There are many times of scars. The ones on the back of your head fall into three categories: tension, keloid, and normal healing. Tension scars occure when the tension in the scalp pulls the skin appart slowly, leaving scar tissue in between, until the tension is gone. Keloids might occur in many people, but are most common in those genetically disposed, primarily black people. Keloids are raised and hard. Scaring occures with all healing, though can be very minimal with paper cuts. It is minimized on the back of the head if performed by a plastic surgeon who uses internal suitchers as well as extrenal ones, and uses single filaments instead of threads, and uses the right kind of tools. Do not let a normal surgeon do this work. Only plastic surgeons are qualified. I'm sure you can dramatically reduce the width of your scar if you have a qualified plastic surgeon excise it. Even most micro graft hair doctors I've emailed said 1/4 inch is typical, which is why I don't recommend most hair doctors.

Did you have micrografts (1-3 hairs in the groups they natureally occur in) or did you have mini grafts? Did they do slits that are less than 1mm wide, or did they do a punch? Did they trim the excess tissue around the follicle, or just put a cylinder in the recipient cite? I did not get any bumps with my treatment.

I get very angry when I see scams on the net an know that many guys who could have been me might fall from them. So many doctors still do minigrafts or say that grafts of 5 or 6 hairs are good for density. This is such BS. I wish someone would do a class action law suit against all these "doctors" and put them out of business since they refuse to evolve with the latest technology. Some even show pictures of techs discecting donor hair WITHOUT MAGNIFICATION. Dr Keene in tucson has magnification that shows up on 19 inch computer monitors so everyone in the room can easily see what each tech is doing. She also cuts fresh donor area and closes it one small peice at a time so that it is not out in the air too long.

How thick are the sars on the back of your head? Bosly left a 1/4 inch scar on my head, and then Dr keene cut it and 1900 grafts out and left just a <1mm scar in its place. No one can see it even if I try to show it to them and my hair is short. She does not do scar removal, but I'm sure if you paid her as much as a small trasplant, you could talk her into just removing the scar. I got lucky. I did not know about her skill until afterwards. I've seen her twice and am going again.

FUE does leave scars. I don't know what microdermabration would do. It is cheap and simple enough you could shave your head and have them do it and see if it goes down. If not, grow it out and your are back and square one and $200 short.

I advice against the electrolis until I see pictures of your head. I also advise against doing any big procedures until you have tested 5 hairs in an area you can see in the mirror. I also advise any people who have already shaved their heads to consider sub dermal tatoos that look like hair roots, and to do just 1 or 2, starting with lighter colors, to see how they look. If they look good, give yourself roots that frame your face and make women think you can grow hair. Do not rush it. You need to spend 6 months planning the perfect hair line.

I can understand your suicide thoughts. I felt that way many times, and finally contemplated jumping off my 4th floor balcony one night for about 15 minutes, because I thought I'd never get a girlfriend. I seemed like the only time I was not depressed was when I was distracted temporarily from this truth by my job or some other activities. Then I decided that if I can at least watch the sun set and go on hikes and rollerblade, it is better than not having lived at all. In fact, I think I may get a decent looking girlfriend some day. Even if I miss out on most of my youth, just enjoying that for 2 years is better than not being alive. So I decided not jump, and have not been suicidal since. I must admit that my hope in some drugs I ordered has postponed a possible future depression. But I think once I graduate from college and get a car so I can go up to the mountains when I want, life will still be worth living even without a girlfriend. Do you know what you want to do for a living? I felt lost, like I was tumbling aimlessly through time, before I knew. I doubt I would have cared about not knowing, if I had a girlfriend, since the main reason I wanted a job was so could fix my hair and get a girlfriend. Just be happy you don't have kids. I know many young people with unplanned kids that make them poor, unless their parents watch them.

 

[youngndumb]

i appreciate the replys. can anyone let me know if my ideas are far fetched regarding the reversal? nobody really told me that. i am looking for pictures of people that went this route, but can't find any. i am just going by what i read on these forums regarding removal of the grafts and scar revision. can anyone give me a dr. who would be able to do this? i am in the south jersey/philadelphia area. i really didn't want to fly out to georgia or wherever for this procedure. if i knew how to submit pics i would, but im not talking a huge reversal here. basically im 23, transplant at 21 and "touch up" at 22. all grafts went into temples to create hairline. so it's not like my entire head is plugs. the scars are my biggest concern, but my hair is starting to recede past the grafts, so that's a problem as well. like i said before, i have a long, thin scar and a shorter, wider scar from the "touch up". the this scar i dont think can get much thinner, and it's 2 years old. i was told that the older the scar the better chance of hair growing into the tissue if implanted.i would like to make the other scar thinner, however, with Juvista on the horizon it may be wise to wait it out instead of revising it now and having a tighter scalp when the drug does come out. on another note, has anyone heard/seen pictures of this drug? i haven't heard anything about it and am wondering if i'm waiting for nothing. i tried to contact the company, but fat chance they will releace any information. just looking for some hope. maybe im panicing for nothing, but maybe not. you guys are the experts and without pics everyone is jsut guessing. please let me know anything i can. i am desperate, but dont want to rush into snything a second time. one thing this surgery has done is made me not rush, and not trust a lot of what people tell me. anyway, as far as what i said can anyone else comment? looking for pictures, anyone that has done electrolosis, micordermabration, BHT into scar etc. would like to PM anybody that can help. also, what are the rates, best way to go about this, first steps, doctors, etc. etc. ANY help would be so much appreciated thanks all who respond.

 

[CCS]

check your mailbox at the top of the page. i sent you an email telling you how to submit pictures. if you click on the link in my signature you will see what my hair looks like.

 

[youngndumb]

hey guys.
just wondering, ive heard from some people that before i look into graft laser removal/electrolosis, i should apply copper peptides for awhile and this should help with the underlying pitting and scarring. Is this accurate? if so, can anyone tell me what i should go with that may benefit the most? i found a bunch of different products and some include salicylic acid. does anyone know about this. do i want this product or no? also tricomin seems really expensive. it's like 50 bux for a half month supply. i cannot afford this so does anyone have any suggestions that can help me out? thanks.

 

[youngndumb]

http://www.makeupartistschoice.com/supercop.htm


check it out, what do u guys think?

 

[CCS]

If I new how to treat the scar on my forehead, I would have done it a while ago. I don't know how deep the scists are. If they are too deep, I doubt a topical will help, or at least not that soon. I wish I could see pictures.

Does anyone one here have pits or cists from surgery? I want to know what they look like. Are they subtle are do they stand out from far away. My skin up there is not pefectly smooth, or not quite as smooth as my other skin, but it is still healing, and I never noticed it before and can't get enough light close enough to really tell in the mirror. Anyone know what they are supposed to look like. All I heard is they look like sh^t, but I don't know how picky the columnist who said that was.

 

[LookingGood!]

http://www.skinbiology.com

 

[youngndumb]

so can anyone please tell me what products would work best at diminishing the cobblestoning/pitting on my head? any recommendations?

 

[CCS]

are you ever going to post pictures? how are we supposed to tell you the cure if we don't know the problem?

 

[youngndumb]

i took pics, but myspace isnt working for me. can someone tell me another way to post them? thanks

 

[LookingGood!]

pictures would help but all honesty we are just posters who can make basic harmless suggestions ( I use the word harmless loosely b/c some people think they are medical experts on these forums) BUT do yourself a favor and consult with hair MDs locally first then look into specialists that have good reputations with repair work. These forums are excellent for that. Another thing is try to relax and not take all of the technical junk information from posters too seriously that is best suited and more qualified in the hands of doctors. When people are down (i've been there) it's any port in town, meaning they will do anything without giving it a well thought out approach. It's seen alot in this industry. Look into copper peptides for the cobblestoning and skin irregularities. I had good success from scars on my forehead and temple region from my boxing/mixed marital arts days. ( http://www.skinbiology.com) Also check local dermatologists just to see what their approach would be. They might be able to prescribe something that could improve the cosmesis before you lok into something more serious such as surgery. Conservative before invasive first. It couldnt hurt.

Hope that helps.

 

[youngndumb]

thank you looking good. i guess i should try to be more relaxed but this sh*t has completely screwed up my life. i am still suicidal, but really dont want to die. it just sucks because i know i cannot live like this. i can regret all i want but it wont do anything but make me feel like sh*t. its funny how before i got this done i would look at people with full heads of hair and a normal hairline and envy them so much. i would sometimes even cry because i was losing my hair at an extremely young age. now, i look at bald guys that shave their heads and i envy them for not having huge scars wrapped around them. i want to believe theres hope here. making one stupid mistake when you are young that forever changes your appearance and self esteem for the worse is just ludicris. even tattoos can be removed years down the road. if you break into someones house, u may go to jail for a couple years. the point is we all make mistakes when we are young and stupid, but most people learn from them and can fix them in time. this is almost exactly the opposite, as it will only get worse in time. just f*****g sucks more than anything. anyway, i appreciate your reply. i will try the peptides but can u elaborate on which brand or kind would be most beneficial? also, searching the web i've found various different kinds of copper peptides. do i want the kind with salicylic acid or no? if u look at my link above, thats the stuff i was going to try but dont exactly know what the acid is for, as most other peptides dont have that mixed in. any help would be great so i can start my treatment. thank you all

 

[youngndumb]

anyone know if i want the hydroxy acid or not?

 

[beaner]

anyone know if i want the hydroxy acid or not?

The hydroxy acid acts as a skin exfoliant..removes a lot of the dead skin cells on the surface, also good as an acne preventative. I would say that you may want to use it, although if you send an email to Dr Pickard on that website, he can probably make the best suggestion for you.