Advice & Discussion On Itch/inflammation?

[WangMQ]

I sincerely look for the help of you guys. This is actually a bit personal but it would also benefit many to open a dedicated thread for this issue. I'm sure most of you are familiar with it.

For my story, click here: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ime-and-androgen-receptor-upregulation.99512/

First of all we all know that itch and inflammation are typical symptoms of male pattern baldness. Androgens (mainly DHT) activate androgen receptors causing a series of reactions (in which PGD2 is thought to play a role) resulting in your immune system attacking your own hair follicles. At least that's what I gathered from reading and discussion so far.

I'm suffering from severe itch and inflammation now. While it's true that I was never free of itch back in all those years on finasteride, I do think it alleviated them to some extent. My itch/inflammation happens where I lose hair, which is the whole crown area, hairline, two large areas above my temples, and the hairline on the back of my head (yes you read it right the hairline on the back). All these areas have thinner hair except for the hairline on the back. I was never freed from shedding either, but I'd shed 30+ hairs per day. Considering the amount of hair I had it was fairly acceptable.

For a good 7 years I was able to keep the remaining hair. The itch was never unmanagable if I use the right shampoo. But ever since I found what finasteride was actually doing to my body and started microdosing (starting from May 2016), my itch and inflammation has gone so wild they're completely out of control! Back then I used to wash my hair every three days and the sebum & itch only got annoying on the third day. Now I can be washing my head everyday and still suffer from this itch right after washing. It's literally making it hard for me to concentrate on my life. (I guess @Dench57 has something to say about that too?) I have no flakes or scales, so I don't think it's the fungus. Just itch and inflammation like hell. They leave red dots and pimples on my head.

I don't think this happened overnight. In the summer back in 2015 I already noticed increased itch and shedding, but back then I got a lot of heat and sunburn in Italy and the itch subsided after 1 month so I didn't think too much. The itch and shedding I'm experiencing now is exactly in the same pattern except much worse. It has lasted for two months and keeps deteriorating.

So, what's happening to my scalp on earth??

Is it because I lowered my finasteride dosage? Maybe, but I paused finasteride for multiple times in the past years, with the longest period of a good 3 months. Even though back then I noticed slightly thinning crown, I don't remember getting this insane itch! Also note that finasteride never fully got rid of the itch before.

Is it because of hyperandrogenecity or androgen receptor upregulation? I do think it's very likely, but while my scalp keeps getting fxxked up, the other areas on my face and body show no sign of this. Facial/body sebum production is the same. I'm not getting additional acnes or rashes either. This is not the case described by dench and makes no sense since oral finasteride works globally. Also note that my sex drive never bounces back (actually I think it is getting lower).

Is it because of the summer heat and seasonal shedding? I really don't think so since I've never experienced anything to this extent in the past years. But I'm sure the summer is making it worse.

Finally, what would you suggest to fight this itch?

Are we simply doomed without finasteride stopping the male pattern baldness itch? Nizoral won't help at all. A long list of natural supplements won't help. RU relieves the itch almost instantly but the sides are immediate too. @David_MPN recommended Paul Mitchel's tea tree oil shampoo (thanks for that mate!), which I haven't tried and probably can't because they don't retail in my area. I'm looking into CB and Seti right now but I'm just so distracted and worried since I was so fxxked up by anti androgens and seti seems to cause sleep problems.

Sometimes I think I'd just let hair go and shave my head some day but even then I can't live my life with this terrible itch...

Advices are appreciated and discussions are welcomed! Please, I need your help.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Amazon is your friend, here's Paul Mitchell's tea tree oil shampoo and conditioner for $30:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...d-3035-4a40-b691-0eefb1a18396&pf_rd_i=desktop

My sister, who I think has early male pattern baldness, has severe itch, she tried it and it made her itch go away. I have never had male pattern baldness itch, but I bought it anyway. I leave it on in the shower for five minutes .... and by the fifth minute it feels like my head is wrapped in a cold blanket, it's truly amazing. Afterwards, if I don't apply propylene glycol (minoxidil), my hair feels softer than it ever has in my life. I normally have dry as f*** hair, but this makes my hair normal soft. Right now I only use the conditioner because I'm waiting for my other shampoos to run out, I don't like owning too many products.

I have not tried, but I think people say coal tar shampoo is good for itch/inflammation. You can also get that from Amazon.

I have not tried, but I hear, I think from @RhinestoneHLT, that copper peptides are good. You can get them from Kane. You'll have to ask him which one he bought, he might have also bought Tricomin. You can also get that (Tricomin) from Amazon.

Within the testimonials that were going up for a while, it was agreed that setipiprant works for itch. You can get that from Kane. At $12/gram, you'll have to dilute significantly, and apply topically.

One thing I'd be curious to see somebody try would be for someone to make ~5% ketoconazole shampoo by dissolving tablets.

*********

ETA: For your sleep, maybe ask your doctor for a brief script of 25 mg amitriptyline.

 

[WangMQ]

Amazon is your friend, here's Paul Mitchell's tea tree oil shampoo and conditioner for $30:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...d-3035-4a40-b691-0eefb1a18396&pf_rd_i=desktop

My sister, who I think has early male pattern baldness, has severe itch, she tried it and it made her itch go away. I have never had male pattern baldness itch, but I bought it anyway. I leave it on in the shower for five minutes .... and by the fifth minute it feels like my head is wrapped in a cold blanket, it's truly amazing. Afterwards, if I don't apply propylene glycol (minoxidil), my hair feels softer than it ever has in my life. I normally have dry as f*** hair, but this makes my hair normal soft. Right now I only use the conditioner because I'm waiting for my other shampoos to run out, I don't like owning too many products.

I have not tried, but I think people say coal tar shampoo is good for itch/inflammation. You can also get that from Amazon.

I have not tried, but I hear, I think from @RhinestoneHLT, that copper peptides are good. You can get them from Kane. You'll have to ask him which one he bought, he might have also bought Tricomin. You can also get that (Tricomin) from Amazon.

Within the testimonials that were going up for a while, it was agreed that setipiprant works for itch. You can get that from Kane. At $12/gram, you'll have to dilute significantly, and apply topically.

One thing I'd be curious to see somebody try would be for someone to make ~5% ketoconazole shampoo by dissolving tablets.

*********

ETA: For your sleep, maybe ask your doctor for a brief script of 25 mg amitriptyline.

A lot of thanks David. I searched on Amazon before and didn't find it guess I should've spent a few more minutes!

I suppose tar shampoo only works if you have fungus problems? That nizoral doesn't help much with the itch makes me less sure about it. I also heard that copper peptides are anti-inflammatory. I should do my homework with it now.

As for the sleep, I won't fight the sides of one drug with another. I did this before (when I was on 1mg finasteride) and that was a total disaster. I think I'm bound to try seti out in the future (since I'm so afraid of anti-androgens) but if it turns out messing with sleep no matter what, well...

BTW Kane again seems to ignore me once he knew I want a shipping to China. Meh.

 

[abcdefg]

Ive used that shampoo tea tree oil shampoo for a long time. Its decent and helps the itch maybe for that day, but the itch always comes back. Nothing fixes it best advice like male pattern baldness itself is just to live with it. Nothing can make it go away.
Maybe propecia, RU, or something that helps with male pattern baldness could help stop it. Shampoos dont fix male pattern baldness and they wont fix the itch unless your itch is just common dandruff. Just like male pattern baldness no one knows much about why it happens or how it works. Hard to fix problems you dont understand at all

 

[Susano]

Hi, I had a similar problem three months ago, which apparently I have solved for the present by adding a tiny bit of vaseline to the tip of my fingers when applying minoxidil. Very little of it, about the head of two sewing pins, but mixed with minoxidil it spreads and apparently does the job.

 

[WangMQ]

Hi, I had a similar problem three months ago, which apparently I have solved for the present by adding a tiny bit of vaseline to the tip of my fingers when applying minoxidil. Very little of it, about the head of two sewing pins, but mixed with minoxidil it spreads and apparently does the job.

Thanks for the advice Susano!

Do you have any idea why it is working for you (Studies or science to back it up)? Why did you start to apply vaseline in the first place?

Cheers

 

[Armando Jose]

Shampoo only remain in scalp minutes, ..., if you want reach inside the scalp where is the real problem is better lotions.

My bet is pure jojoba oil, better if it contain some essential oils, using during the night to wash the hair next morning.

Good luck

 

[Sonicblu650]

Emu oil is helping me alot. Recently started minoxidil on temples and itch came back like crazy, a lil emu oil at night has made a huge difference. Just an idea

 

[buckthorn]

here are a few things I would try.

1) dermarolling with 1.5mm needle
2) nizoral 2%
3) stemoxydine
4) boar bristle brush. I swear this helps. Brush the f*ck out of your scalp
5) NAC, castor oil, oral anti histamine, taurine, melatonin, fish oil, tocosorb, and a solid anti inflammatory supplement- amazon
6) I do believe in emu oil to a certain extent. I personal feel, in my case at least, it works as a mild anti inflammatory. Just a little bit goes a long way.

 

[buckthorn]

here are a few things I would try.

1) dermarolling with 1.5mm needle
2) nizoral 2%
3) stemoxydine
4) boar bristle brush. I swear this helps. Brush the f*ck out of your scalp
5) NAC, castor oil, oral anti histamine, taurine, melatonin, fish oil, tocosorb, and a solid anti inflammatory supplement- amazon
6) I do believe in emu oil to a certain extent. I personal feel, in my case at least, it works as a mild anti inflammatory. Just a little bit goes a long way.

PEPPERMINT as well! get some quality peppermint oil and add a couple drops to your minoxidil, or stemox. Feels gooooood! and as David mentioned, tea tree oil.. Hell, I even rotate in a demodox shampoo (for mite control), because I am often working in dirty environments and have a dog. I tried it once, and while I don't think I really need it, for some reason it makes my scalp feel amazing.

 

[buckthorn]

PEPPERMINT as well! get some quality peppermint oil and add a couple drops to your minoxidil, or stemox. Feels gooooood! and as David mentioned, tea tree oil.. Hell, I even rotate in a demodox shampoo (for mite control), because I am often working in dirty environments and have a dog. I tried it once, and while I don't think I really need it, for some reason it makes my scalp feel amazing.

My point being - you will never find relief unless you experiment with various different things. I dropped almost everything while I was camping, except minoxidil, and my scalp started feeling great again. I slowly started adding things back in one by one, to eliminate any variables. first was stemoxydine, felt great. Then low concentration RU, still good. This week, I will slowly add in some 15% minoxidil. If my scalp gets irritated, I will drop it like a rock. For me, after months of trial and error, I am coming to the conclusion that the sole thing causing my inflammation was oral aa's (finasteride and/or dutasteride).

 

[Susano]

Thanks for the advice Susano!

Do you have any idea why it is working for you (Studies or science to back it up)? Why did you start to apply vaseline in the first place?

Cheers

At the time I was only looking for a moisturizer to help with the flaking and itching.

I already had pure vaseline to be used as a skin moisturizer after mandelic acid, at that point I remembered I had read possibly here about vaseline being maybe helpful to carry minoxidil more deep into the scalp. I don't know about this latter benefit, but definitely there's no more itching and flaking.

I had to slow down using Nizoral because it was drying to much my scalp, but now with this tiny bit of vaseline I can use again Nizoral every other day.

 

[WangMQ]

My point being - you will never find relief unless you experiment with various different things. I dropped almost everything while I was camping, except minoxidil, and my scalp started feeling great again. I slowly started adding things back in one by one, to eliminate any variables. first was stemoxydine, felt great. Then low concentration RU, still good. This week, I will slowly add in some 15% minoxidil. If my scalp gets irritated, I will drop it like a rock. For me, after months of trial and error, I am coming to the conclusion that the sole thing causing my inflammation was oral aa's (finasteride and/or dutasteride).

I'm glad you're coming to some solutions to your itch buckthorn! I've been following you because of this god damn itch we share. Hell, we even tried RU at similar time if you remember my first PM to you.

If you think oral AAs f'd you up just drop them in a heartbeat. I think my case is even more hopeless. Using finasteride for years gave me upregulated ARs and accumulated sides. Whether finasteride or not I'm f'd.

Did you actually try all those things you listed above? Cuz' that's a huge arsenal. Some questions for you:

When you refer to castor oil, emu oil, etc., do you mean applying them directly to your scalp? I remember a forum member was soaking his head in castor oil every night and found relief. But I can't imagine how to deal with that everyday.

I've already tried natural anti-inflammatories like quercetin. Don't think it helped a bit. God, do I really want to jump to clinical anti histamines like aspirin??

 

[buckthorn]

I'm glad you're coming to some solutions to your itch buckthorn! I've been following you because of this god damn itch we share. Hell, we even tried RU at similar time if you remember my first PM to you.

If you think oral AAs f'd you up just drop them in a heartbeat. I think my case is even more hopeless. Using finasteride for years gave me upregulated ARs and accumulated sides. Whether finasteride or not I'm f'd.

Did you actually try all those things you listed above? Cuz' that's a huge arsenal. Some questions for you:

When you refer to castor oil, emu oil, etc., do you mean applying them directly to your scalp? I remember a forum member was soaking his head in castor oil every night and found relief. But I can't imagine how to deal with that everyday.

I've already tried natural anti-inflammatories like quercetin. Don't think it helped a bit. God, do I really want to jump to clinical anti histamines like aspirin??

I take castor oil orally, and now only apply emu oil to my beard and sides and back of head. I do believe that it helps reduce inflammation, however, and is a great thing to add if you're into the topical oils. idk man, finasteride f*cked me really bad, but I have been dabbling with dutasteride again. At this point, I don't have much to lose. I only take 1mg once a week. I also have been alternating treatments. using RU eod and minoxidil foam 5% in the mornings and 5% liquid at night. I have this weird feeling that by changing up treatments a bit, your cells might not get used to it and negatively feedback.

 

[WangMQ]

Wonder if this itch is an allergic reaction gone systemic. When I dye my hair, my skin is usually itching the next day, all over.

For my own hair, hydrocortisone did the trick. Stopped all the itching.

You mean OTC hydrocortisone creams/lotions? How do you apply that on your scalp?

Thanks!

 

[WangMQ]

I take castor oil orally, and now only apply emu oil to my beard and sides and back of head. I do believe that it helps reduce inflammation, however, and is a great thing to add if you're into the topical oils. idk man, finasteride f*cked me really bad, but I have been dabbling with dutasteride again. At this point, I don't have much to lose. I only take 1mg once a week. I also have been alternating treatments. using RU eod and minoxidil foam 5% in the mornings and 5% liquid at night. I have this weird feeling that by changing up treatments a bit, your cells might not get used to it and negatively feedback.

I know exactly what you mean.

After more than four months of altering dosage, dosing time and treatment combinations I don't know what I'm doing or should do anymore.

 

[buckthorn]

I know exactly what you mean.

After more than four months of altering dosage, dosing time and treatment combinations I don't know what I'm doing or should do anymore.

have you tried the following?

1) stemoxydine - i swear, somehow this seems to help me
2) BOTH minoxidil foam and minoxidil liquid / cream - yes, different people seem to respond differently to either type some times. Propylene glycol, for example a common compound in a lot of minoxidil liquid and other cosmetics f*cks me bad.
3) supplements - fish oil, castor oil, NAC, taurine, pumpkin seed oil and perhaps a daily anti histamine like benedryl?
4) nizoral (ketoconozal) 2%
5) dermarolling with 1.5mm... also boar bristle brush
6) cold therapy and/or inversion therapy
7) tea tree oil
8) apple cider vinegar orally

I know most of this sounds ridiculous. I notice a decrease in inflammation when I alter my diet to lower carbs. Right now I am trying to lose weight. I load up my crock pot with meat and veggies and eat that sh*t every day. It seems to help.
(sorry, I don't know your regimen exactly, so if you're already trying these, I apologize)

 

[buckthorn]

I know exactly what you mean.

After more than four months of altering dosage, dosing time and treatment combinations I don't know what I'm doing or should do anymore.

Oh, and I just flushed all my dutasteride down the f*cking toilet.. I have a strong intuition all that sh*t is complete poison to me. I am done with oral AA's

 

[lamch]

Ive never experianced this "itch" although i get a little bit of stinging/itching for ten mins after minoxidil usage. Does anyone know what the itch actualy means? and the difference between having the itch and not having the itch in terms of male pattern baldness?

 

[WangMQ]

The hydrocortisone is part of the medication I use. I only use one. It combines 30% Minoxidil, .25% Progesterone, .1% Finasteride, and .1% Hydrocortisone.

Hydrocortisone is used so my scalped won't be inflamed burned. That actually happened when I used 15%. My hair started to fall out the first day!

That's curious. You're using a self-made topical? Like, you actually gathered all these ingredients and mix them into one solution for daily application?