Adenosine Versus Caffeine

[mulder]

Caffeine of course is an antagonist of adenosine receptor site- one of the primary mechanisms by which it exerts its psychoactive effects. This might not be a good thing since adenosine has been shown to be important in mediating the effects of minoxidil:
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v117/n6/full/5601333a.html

Could the high caffeine content be the reason Revita appears to be producing sheds and no extra regrowth. Could Revita be diminishing the effect of minoxidil? Interestingly Spectral DNC contains adenosine. I've been using both in conjuction pretty and I didn't experience a massive shed as far as I know. Would be interesting to see if those with the worst opinions of Revita are those not using it in conjuction with Spectral DNC...or those with the best not using any minoxidil or using something else with adenosine in it.

Perhaps we should be adding adenosine to our Revita from now on...

Obviously this is a problem for green tea as a topical as well. Again maybe adding adenosine to any topical with GTE in it would do the trick...

Also adenosine has been shown to be effective in vivo in humans while caffeine only has in vitro research to back it up I believe...correct me if I'm wrong. Also adenosine encourages VEGF and angiogenesis among other things, so it should counteract the negative effects of EGCG..another reason to add it to any topical with GTE in it.

From one of bcapop's threads:

Adenosine
-Adenosine stimulates the growth factor Fibroblast Growth Factor-7 en vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) in hair cells. The Watanabe study was an randomized double-blind trial with 104 volunteers with Androgenetic Alopecia which used a adenosine (0.75%) topical lotion or a niacin amide (0.1%) topical lotion twice daily for 6 month. The results showed that adenosine was significantly superior to niacin amide and both treatments resulted in a significantly decreased ratio of vellus-like hair and also significantly increased the ratio of thick hair, but did not change hair density. Adverse effects were not found (10).

Anyone know a good place to buy adenosine at? There's a shampoo or topical called adenogen which has been out for a long time...but it looks like very few have experience with it because of the expense. There's also this stuff:
http://www.folica.com/Dermenodex_Scal_d3225.html

Has 3% adenosine and isn't too expensive.


You guys have any thoughts on all of this?

 

[bcapop]

Caffeine and adenosine are competing on the same receptor yes, but there is no proof that this is how they affect hair roots.

 

[mulder]

Caffeine and adenosine are competing on the same receptor yes, but there is no proof that this is how they affect hair roots.

Caffeine has other effects besides being an antagonist on the adenosine receptor sites...

Perhaps caffeine exerts its protective effects via some other mechanism than being an adenosine antagonist. It also has effects on calcium stores and phophodiesterase.

On the other hand there does seem to be some evidence that adenosine does in fact exert its effect through the adenosine receptor site.

 

[mulder]

Anyone know where you can adenosine capsules or powder? Is it just adenosine they're adding or ATP ADP??

 

[mulder]

One of the other mechanisms of action for caffeine, besides inhibiting adenosine, is through inhibition of phosphodiesterase. Seems like other inhibitors of phosphodiesterase are useful for Androgenetic Alopecia.

http://www.androgeneticalopecia.com/hai ... ness.shtml

Lots of patents out there for phosphodiesterase inhibitors and hair growth products as well.

 

[mulder]

No replies?
Well adenosine actually seem pretty hard to find...anyone know a good cheap source?

I've been looking for some herbs that act as adenosine A1 or A2 agonists. Apparently Valerian root is a known A1 agonist. Since I need something for insomnia anyway I may just order some and experiment with it a bit.

 

[mulder]

Apparently Valerian smells like ***. I'll order it anyway and see if it can be used topically at all.

 

[mulder]

Since adenosine seems so hard to find I ended up getting its metabolite inosine which seems to have some agonist effects on adenosine receptors. I'll try adding Valerian as well which is an adenosine A1 agonist. I'll be adding the inosine to Revita and both to another topical.

 

[mulder]

So no one made a comment on my idea that topical caffeine may be blocking the effects of minoxidil and other NO growth promoters. Any thoughts on this?

 

[47thin]

You can get Adenogen from a Sheseido store, but I have yet to see anyone, or at least more than one person, say it did them any good, at least on my web searches. Now, it is an Asian product, so who knows, maybe there are a million happy customers posting in Japan and HK, but I doubt it so far.

 

[ripple-effect]

Mulder, what's your regimen?

 

[bcapop]

So no one made a comment on my idea that topical caffeine may be blocking the effects of minoxidil and other NO growth promoters. Any thoughts on this?

Don't use Caffeine and Adenosine in 1 topical, but spread it throughout the day. Apply the Caffeine in the morning and in the evening the Adenosine.

 

[mulder]

So no one made a comment on my idea that topical caffeine may be blocking the effects of minoxidil and other NO growth promoters. Any thoughts on this?

Don't use Caffeine and Adenosine in 1 topical, but spread it throughout the day. Apply the Caffeine in the morning and in the evening the Adenosine.

I don't see the point of this at all. If both caffeine and adenosine are effective it's presumably due to effects that work via different mechanisms...i.e. caffeine isn't working by blocking the adenosine pathway- the most logical explanation would seem to be caffeine has mixed effects. In light of that, preventing the negative effects of caffeine whenever you may be using it topically would seem the best thing to do.

 

[mulder]

Mulder, what's your regimen?

Shampooing with t-gel greasy (prewash) then revita or a homemade mixed shampoo (GTE, saw palmetto, grape seed, pine bark, various essential oils etc.). Will be adding inosine to Revita and the homemade mix soon.

Spectral DNC am, 5% generic minoxidil pm, emu/essential oil mix at night

Needling every 5 days, combined with minoxidil and folligen

very healthy diet, saw palm (1 gram a day), finasteride (1mg each day), gingko

sit under a laser lamp EOD for 30 min

- will be adding retin-a cream, a few herbs in another topical, maybe spironolactone in a shampoo

 

[chris55]

Mulder,

Did you ever find a place to buy adenosine powder or capsules? I did some searching and found this....

http://sciencekit.com/product.asp?pn=IG ... 1192252440

http://www.b2bworld.com.au/hp/category99_1.htm

btw how were you planning on mixing it into a topical? I wanted elsom to make me a custom topical with sophora, laminaria, and adenosine but it could only be made in a batch (which was too expensive for me).

 

[mulder]

Thanks for the links. That ATP is pretty damn expensive. I'm using Inosine right now in my Revita and Emu Oil. I'll probably add some to a topical I'm making. I wonder if there's anyone out there selling a topical with Sophora and laminaria?