abortion

[turkey]

How illogical is it to defend abortion on the moral grounds of protecting the mother's life? This whole "we have to make abortion available to eliminate the risks associated with back-alley abortions" line makes no sense to me! It assumes the mother's life has value and the child's has none.
_____________________
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[Bekim]

this strange why you no have posts

why you posts say 0

uncle in Albania give sister abortion onces

uncle also give goat abortion but this not same method!


Bekim

 

[Smooth]

LOL :woot: whos that clown?

 

[Smooth]

this strange why you no have posts

why you posts say 0

uncle in Albania give sister abortion onces

uncle also give goat abortion but this not same method!


Bekim

Cassin, is that you in there toying with us? @ hu?!??!?!?!? hone:

 

[somone uk]

How illogical is it to defend abortion on the moral grounds of protecting the mother's life? This whole "we have to make abortion available to eliminate the risks associated with back-alley abortions" line makes no sense to me! It assumes the mother's life has value and the child's has none.

most aborted babies are not alive and would not be able to sustain life outside the womb

 

[HughJass]

How illogical is it to defend abortion on the moral grounds of protecting the mother's life?

pretty logical, when you're a woman who might die from a giving birth.

This whole "we have to make abortion available to eliminate the risks associated with back-alley abortions" line makes no sense to me! It assumes the mother's life has value and the child's has none.

well for starters, it's a fetus and not a child

can a fetus suffer? we know a mother definetely can. That makes it pretty easy for me.

if you care about protecting life then how can you be for banning something that would ensure a return to backyard abortions which kill woman?

also, too many people on the planet and all that. Abortion ftw

 

[Cassin]

Bekim's the real deal...

this forum attracts all kinds and he's not American

 

[Jacob]

A fetus is a baby unless it's to be aborted. :shakehead:

And yes..a fetus can "suffer". It can feel pain..at least at a certain point. In fact at least one state..Nebraska... banned abortions after 20 weeks because of that.

I look at sites like these and wonder how anyone can say it's not a developing human being(obviously no one can say that..but they'll use the usual "choice etc rhetoric) : http://www.medicinenet.com/fetal_development_pictures_slideshow/article.htm

http://www.pregnancy.org/article/overview-fetal-development

 

[HughJass]

A fetus is a baby unless it's to be aborted. :shakehead:

so is a seed a tree?

And yes..a fetus can "suffer". It can feel pain..at least at a certain point.

what science proves that to be true? none that I've seen at least...

In fact at least one state..Nebraska... banned abortions after 20 weeks because of that.

probably more likely to have been banned because 99% of US politicians are hysterical religious types

 

[timbo]

A fetus is a baby unless it's to be aborted. :shakehead:

so is a seed a tree?

I think the biggest thing that made me change my views on abortion was the simple question: "What if you're wrong?" It seems like if you're not sure whether it's a human life or not, why not err on the side of caution? Because if you're wrong, you would have been a part of the largest genocide in the history of the world.

 

[Smooth]

Bekim's the real deal...

this forum attracts all kinds and he's not American

LIES and deceptions! i know you work for the government !! :ninja:

 

[HughJass]

I think the biggest thing that made me change my views on abortion was the simple question: "What if you're wrong?" It seems like if you're not sure whether it's a human life or not, why not err on the side of caution?

because the side of caution tends to kill women and produce a lot of unwanted children

 

[timbo]

I think the biggest thing that made me change my views on abortion was the simple question: "What if you're wrong?" It seems like if you're not sure whether it's a human life or not, why not err on the side of caution?

because the side of caution tends to kill women and produce a lot of unwanted children

I agree with you about the potential health risks to the mother. The problem is that it only occurs in about 6% of abortion cases. The vast majority of abortions occur because of your second reason, "unwanted children."

what science proves that to be true? none that I've seen at least...

I think it's interesting how the pro-choice crowds always wants to see "proof" that the fetus inside the mother's womb is in fact a human being. But in reality, pro-choice people should be providing facts about how it's not a human, because you are the ones taking action to kill it. Don't you people want to make damn sure you know exactly what you are killing?

 

[Jacob]

First of all..this "women's lives will be in danger" is nothing but unfounded hysteria.

so is a seed a tree?

You're comparing plants to humans?

[quote:xwnea2ug]
And yes..a fetus can "suffer". It can feel pain..at least at a certain point.

what science proves that to be true? none that I've seen at least... [/quote:xwnea2ug]

Then you haven't bothered to look. Also see the film- The Silent Scream.

The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks. This is probably a conservatively late estimate, but it is scientifically solid. Elements of the pain-conveying system (spino-thalamic system) begin to be assembled at 7 weeks; enough development has occurred by 12-14 weeks that some pain perception is likely, and continues to build through the second trimester. By 20 weeks, the spino- thalamic system is fully established and connected.

In fact at least one state..Nebraska... banned abortions after 20 weeks because of that.

probably more likely to have been banned because 99% of US politicians are hysterical religious types[/quote]

Actually they are not..I see you're not from around here :shakehead: It doesn't take religion anyway to see there's a developing human being inside the womb. There's a reason it's called an abortion- "Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.." Notice we don't use such terms for removing of something cancerous..or a tumor..etc.

Fetal development at 8 weeks

The baby is now about the size of a grape - almost an inch in size. Eyelids and ears are forming and even the tip of the nose is visible. The arms and legs are well formed. The fingers and toes grow longer and more distinct.

 

[Nene]

First of all..this "women's lives will be in danger" is nothing but unfounded hysteria.

so is a seed a tree?

You're comparing plants to humans?





[quote:18mo6r23] [quote:18mo6r23]
And yes..a fetus can "suffer". It can feel pain..at least at a certain point.

what science proves that to be true? none that I've seen at least... [/quote:18mo6r23]

Then you haven't bothered to look. Also see the film- The Silent Scream.

The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks. This is probably a conservatively late estimate, but it is scientifically solid. Elements of the pain-conveying system (spino-thalamic system) begin to be assembled at 7 weeks; enough development has occurred by 12-14 weeks that some pain perception is likely, and continues to build through the second trimester. By 20 weeks, the spino- thalamic system is fully established and connected.

In fact at least one state..Nebraska... banned abortions after 20 weeks because of that.

probably more likely to have been banned because 99% of US politicians are hysterical religious types[/quote:18mo6r23]

Actually they are not..I see you're not from around here :shakehead: It doesn't take religion anyway to see there's a developing human being inside the womb. There's a reason it's called an abortion- "Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.." Notice we don't use such terms for removing of something cancerous..or a tumor..etc.

Fetal development at 8 weeks

The baby is now about the size of a grape - almost an inch in size. Eyelids and ears are forming and even the tip of the nose is visible. The arms and legs are well formed. The fingers and toes grow longer and more distinct.

[/quote]


No one is saying that abortions are fun and should just be done all willy nilly. It's got to be a difficult decision for a woman or couple to make to abort a pregnancy. However in certain situations, such as pregnancy due to rape, or when a mother's life is at risk, or when a teenager gets pregnant, sometimes abortion just might be the better route for all parties involved.

 

[timbo]

No one is saying that abortions are fun and should just be done all willy nilly. It's got to be a difficult decision for a woman or couple to make to abort a pregnancy.

You'd like to think so, but the reality is that there are around 1.3 million done every year in just the U.S., there are 42 million per year worldwide, and those numbers are going up.

However in certain situations, such as pregnancy due to rape, or when a mother's life is at risk, or when a teenager gets pregnant, sometimes abortion just might be the better route for all parties involved.

The problem is, as I stated before, Rape or incest related abortions make up less than 1% of all procedures in the U.S., while potential health risks to the mother make up about 6% of all procedures.

It is estimated that 43% of women will have at least 1 abortion before age 45. 47% of abortions are performed on women who have had previous abortions. I think they are being done a little bit more "willy nilly" than you would like to admit.

 

[Jacob]

Nene..I'd agree with you if it wasn't a human being..call it a developing human being if you want..involved.

Another carnard is that those who are prolife/against abortion want to save lives but then don't do anything once they're born. There are numerous groups out there dedicated to just that..including https://www.care-net.org/ As well as smaller/local organazations...individual help...churches..etc.

 

[Cassin]

Careful Jacob...I'm not sure you're allowed to even hint that a church may do some good on Internet forums

 

[HughJass]

First of all..this "women's lives will be in danger" is nothing but unfounded hysteria.

According to WHO and Guttmacher, approximately 68,000 women die annually as a result of complications of unsafe abortion; and between two million and seven million women each year survive unsafe abortion but sustain long-term damage or disease (incomplete abortion, infection (sepsis), haemorrhage, and injury to the internal organs, such as puncturing or tearing of the uterus).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion

^^^ thats what your argueing for a return to.

You're comparing plants to humans?

Then you haven't bothered to look. Also see the film- The Silent Scream.The fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks. This is probably a conservatively late estimate, but it is scientifically solid. Elements of the pain-conveying system (spino-thalamic system) begin to be assembled at 7 weeks; enough development has occurred by 12-14 weeks that some pain perception is likely, and continues to build through the second trimester. By 20 weeks, the spino- thalamic system is fully established and connected.

junk science/propaganda movie. Claims from a few pro-life doctors don't equal indisputable established fact.

Actually they are not..

LOL

The baby is now about the size of a grape - almost an inch in size. Eyelids and ears are forming and even the tip of the nose is visible. The arms and legs are well formed. The fingers and toes grow longer and more distinct.

[/quote]

Nobody is disputing whether or not a fetus will turn into a human given enough time , so it's hardly surprising that it would start to develop human features.

The real issue in this debate is whether not you think morals and ethical priorities should be guided by selflessness or selfishness.

Can you convince me that somebody who decides to allow a rape victim the oppertunity to have an abortion and avoid a life time of humiliation and shame, after she has already been shamed in the worst way a woman could be, hasn't taken their own ego out of the equazian in making that decision? doubt it

Forcing such a woman to give birth just so your views can take precedence over her mental health comes across as selfish, not to mention authoritarian and misogynistic.

 

[Hammy070]

Bekim...a cross between Borat and Boris Johnson.

I've mentioned before my proposal to tackle the issue of abortion.

All females at birth/puberty undergo a simple procedure to temporarily defertilize them, mechanically or otherwise.

This procedure is easily reversible at the time when the patient decides to have a child.

I think this is logically sound because only perhaps 1 in 10,000 instances of sexual intercourse are for procreation.

Otherwise active contraception needs to be applied almost everyday or so. Reducing that to perhaps a handful in ones' lifetime saves a ton of money, resolves the controversy of abortion and means all children are born wanted.

I might be missing something, does anyone see why this would be unworkable?