A whole bunch of new(ish) topical ideas!

[Hoppi]

Hey hey peeps! Please don't attack me over these - if you ever think "But wait! male pattern baldness is about androgens/genetics so these cannot possibly help me!", then do remember that minoxidil does not work by interfering with your androgens or genetics, yet it still works

Ok, so here's my thing!

Basically it seems the top things to achieve for stopping male pattern baldness are:

Decreasing androgens, reducing sebum (which many believe harbors androgens and infections), controlling infections (I believe this is why dandruff often accompanies male pattern baldness), reducing inflammation (caused by infection/androgens), increasing bloodflow (decreased by destruction of blood vessels by androgens/infection), and exfoliating the skin (which gets covered by things like sebum, dandruff, and new skin growing over dying follicles).


I am unsure of the exact mechanisms of male pattern baldness. But using the examples of minoxidil and other growth stimulators we can see success through methods that do not reduce androgens or alter genetics.

Therefore I would like to suggest topicals such as these:

Tea tree oil (to kill infection including dandruff), VEGF (to stimulate angiogenesis - the creation of new blood vessels. Available already in a topical by Nanogen), cayenne pepper (to increase bloodflow), salicylic acid (essentially topical aspirin - reduces inflammation and exfoliates the skin. You can also crush aspirin tablets.) and witch hazel (reduces sebum).

Of course, you all know the best topical antiandrogens which is why I haven't listed any. However, do remember that while usually with antiandrogens we must be careful as they can hurt us systemically, most of the above are comparatively very safe systemically and can be applied to the scalp in stronger amounts.


Let me know your thoughts!

I have been using topical tea tree 3 times a day and my dandruff has pretty much gone. Not sure about hair loss yet though.

Nanogen's VEGF product has some very positive reviews.

Cayenne was the main ingredient in many older baldness treatments.

Salicylic acid has reports of success.

Witch hazel I've also read a testimonial speaking of success for male pattern baldness.


Hope all that catches someone's eye!


Hoppi!


EDIT -- I grabbed some of those aspirins that dissolve in water so maybe I'll use those in the place of salicylic acid... same deal I guess

 

[sapinho]

I had never seen VEGF discussed before. Looks interesting. Though doing a google search across this site shows it's nothing new, el_duterino has tried it, along with some random posts pointing out that Grape Seed and Curcumin inhibit it, despite the fact that both of these are thought to positively affect hair. I'm not knocking it, my only concern would be that it could work against you in terms of fighting inflammation.

Related to Curcumin... I know that people have tried making Curcumin into a topical for years. The little bit of research I've done seems to indicate that my personal experiment, Mangiferin+Gallic Acid, seems to very very similar in its affects. They both are strong anti-inflammatories and also fall into the "anti-cancer" category (increasing TGF-beta and reducing VEGF). ...any thoughts on whether such 'anti-cancer' treatments can realistically make hair literally kill hair, or is there a chance they'll have little affect on healthy cells?

 

[Hoppi]

I had never seen VEGF discussed before. Looks interesting. Though doing a google search across this site shows it's nothing new, el_duterino has tried it, along with some random posts pointing out that Grape Seed and Curcumin inhibit it, despite the fact that both of these are thought to positively affect hair. I'm not knocking it, my only concern would be that it could work against you in terms of fighting inflammation.

Related to Curcumin... I know that people have tried making Curcumin into a topical for years. The little bit of research I've done seems to indicate that my personal experiment, Mangiferin+Gallic Acid, seems to very very similar in its affects. They both are strong anti-inflammatories and also fall into the "anti-cancer" category (increasing TGF-beta and reducing VEGF). ...any thoughts on whether such 'anti-cancer' treatments can realistically make hair literally kill hair, or is there a chance they'll have little affect on healthy cells?

I am not sure... however, what is wrong with simply using aspirin as the anti-inflammatory? I mean it's well-known that salicylic acid which is basically aspirin has a positive effect on male pattern baldness. I literally just took a dissolvable aspirin tablet and plopped it into my diluted tea tree oil, shook it up and applied as normal! lol

I really would like to find a cheaply available angiogenesis stimulator though. VEGF probably is the best you can get but it's fairly pricey.

I would imagine that any angiogenesis inhibitor would have a negative effect on hair if applied topically, but that's only an assumption.

Angiogenic topicals seem to make more sense as a choice over simply increasing blood flow, as it seems that the inflammation involved in male pattern baldness actually destroys the blood vessels supplying the hair, so one would imagine that simply pumping more blood in may not be too effective without trying to rebuild them as well.

I do think there is seriously something here, and combining these things may lead to a fantastic synergistic protection and rebuilding of hair follicles! Who knows

 

[Defiance]

http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/ ... l_released
ok wont let me post it but its Rejuveplex
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=rejuve ... =firefox-a (first google link)
What are you thoughts on that topical from immortal hair?

I dont have a whole lot of hairloss ingredients knowledge but it seems this one is really only dealing with inflammation

 

[Hoppi]

http://www.(Link not permitted).org/index.php/hairloss/page2-newsarticles/rejuveplex_anti_aging_hair_loss_topical_released
ok wont let me post it but its Rejuveplex
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=rejuve ... =firefox-a (first google link)
What are you thoughts on that topical from immortal hair?

I dont have a whole lot of hairloss ingredients knowledge but it seems this one is really only dealing with inflammation

Well, obviously anything that tackles inflammation is potentially helpful, but I must admit these guys know considerably more about that field than me (they research it a LOT). I still can't see why a simple general anti-inflammatory like aspirin / salicylic acid is not sufficient (hell it's a bargain at 22p for 16 tablets eh? lol), but there may well be something I'm missing.

Oh, I found this regarding angiogenesis:

http://www.hairloss-research.org/Update ... 11-10.html


I think it probably IS true that the best stuff is VEGF, but it's good to get some new ideas going too. I would be surprised if (Nanogen) VEGF + tea tree + aspirin/salicylic isn't enough to stop hair loss (would be comparatively cheap too) but it's only an experiment and there is a possibility that these things are either not comprehensive enough or not strong enough to work.

Feels good to be making some headway though, and I think all the tools are around us to have success with these methods.

 

[Jacob]

OMG..Hoppi isn't buying into the latest IH-hyped product? :woot: Even going so far as to say "I still can't see why a simple general anti-inflammatory like aspirin / salicylic acid is not sufficient" WOW.

Why not just get on a decent topical for awhile instead of becoming a mad scientist using things that have probably been discussed for 10 or more years? I can see doing that if using 17AP or RUM or AHK-CU etc...but there are some decent topicals out there worth trying IMO.

 

[Hoppi]

OMG..Hoppi isn't buying into the latest IH-hyped product? :woot: Even going so far as to say "I still can't see why a simple general anti-inflammatory like aspirin / salicylic acid is not sufficient" WOW.

Why not just get on a decent topical for awhile instead of becoming a mad scientist using things that have probably been discussed for 10 or more years? I can see doing that if using 17AP or RUM or AHK-CU etc...but there are some decent topicals out there worth trying IMO.

I just continue to research, and then base what I do off of my research.

 

[Jacob]

:ermm:

BTW Hoppi...the video...the video :whistle:

 

[Hoppi]

:ermm:

BTW Hoppi...the video...the video :whistle:

The Rejuveplex one?

Aw nah cba (can't be arsed) lol

It'll be all loooong and time consuming! I do like Immortal and OMG and all that though, they're good fun

 

[Jacob]

Any of them...you know what I'm referring to :whistle:

But yeah..they are entertaining.

 

[Hoppi]

Any of them...you know what I'm referring to :whistle:

But yeah..they are entertaining.

The hair loss show thing they did?

And Jacob mate... not everyone KNOWS as much about all this as you! I think you have to understand that! Many, many, many of the things that you say as if everyone knows them or everyone SHOULD know them, usually a good 90% or 95% of people don't know.

I think you just have to accept that in terms of general knowledge of the hair loss scene (potential treatments, rumours, people, projects, etc), you do know more than a good 90-95% of people. And that's great

... just please try not to be so patronizing about it!!

 

[Jacob]

But the others aren't posting such things as breaking news etc :woot: Back on the topicals that are out there...you do realize these companies etc HAVE done some research themselves...no?

On the vids..any of them. The hair. We still can't see the hair. No one has even seen a crown picture. We never will..until it's ready.

 

[Hoppi]

But the others aren't posting such things as breaking news etc :woot: Back on the topicals that are out there...you do realize these companies etc HAVE done some research themselves...no?

On the vids..any of them. The hair. We still can't see the hair. No one has even seen a crown picture. We never will..until it's ready.

erm, OMG's hair looks ok. Immortal's hair also looks alright.

I mean, it's true that people are struggling to come up with a real solid fix, but hell, aren't we all?

Nidhogge of course is next to bald, but then the thing is it takes varying degrees of time for different people to master this stuff and for some hair loss can be very fast. I'm lucky in that mine is fairly slow and I have thick hair (or at least used to) so it's hanging on in there for a long time.

We're all struggling (and I mean all of us) but I have no problems with anyone's methods as long as their intentions are good and they aren't just trying to grab money or anything off of others.

For example, if one of my techniques works, I will share it for free, because I know how horrible hair loss is and I don't want to make money off of that (or at least not at the expense of helping people with it).

For now, I'd love to find a cheap angiogenic substance. I'm finding that as tea tree oil and aspirin are so cheap, I can actually use so much topical my head is soaked 3 times a day without hardly spending anything, and that's really good. So if I can find a good, cheap angiogen (probably a word) as well, then I'm really doing well!

 

[Jacob]

OMG had transplants. IH you can't tell. He's never provided decent pics..and the vids have that convenient bright light thing going on. Nid..what you said.

"as long as their intentions are good" ..I won't even comment on that :woot:

I was going to post links to some topicals worth trying out(IMO)..but it looks like you want to do a do-it-yourself..and cheap..deal.

 

[Hoppi]

OMG had transplants. IH you can't tell. He's never provided decent pics..and the vids have that convenient bright light thing going on. Nid..what you said.

"as long as their intentions are good" ..I won't even comment on that :woot:

I was going to post links to some topicals worth trying out(IMO)..but it looks like you want to do a do-it-yourself..and cheap..deal.

No it's not just that.. it's also that as I am learning, I am working out my own approach, based not on recommendations or on branding, but on my understanding of the causes of hair loss and my digestive health issues that accompanied it.

So I chose tea tree because it's antibacterial/antifungal/astringent, aspirin because it's anti-inflammatory/exfoliating, etc. And as I learn more I keep improving my approach.

I used to just buy things solely based on recommendation such as the mainstream stuff (finasteride, nizoral, minoxidil, Folligen) but now I'm understanding more and more about Androgenetic Alopecia and I want to base my choices on my own logic as to what should work.

Obviously, applying tea tree kills dandruff. My inflammation has fallen as well I think. But it's all a learning experience and every little victory is a step in the right direction

 

[Jacob]

"as long as their intentions are good" ..I won't even comment on that :woot:

What exactly are you hinting at? Does this have to do with those custom made laser helmets?

Let's just say from Day 1 I knew they'd be selling stuff..especially IH. Even said so back then. It was so OBVIOUS . That and how they hype things up...

Hoppi..also look into Manuka oil then.

Research found that not all Manuka Oils from New Zealand are biologically active. Only Manuka oil from the East Cape region of New Zealand contains high levels of "triketones", the naturally occurring chemical compound that provide the anti-bacterial and anti-fungicidal properties. All Manuka Oil is batch tested by Crop & Food Research to verify all Manawa Manuka oil products contain high levels of triketones to ensure their healing ability. Scientific testing undertaken by the Cawthron Institute and Crop & Food Research established that East Cape Manuka Oil is at least 15 times more effective than Australian Tea Tree Oil against-gram positive bacteria (Staphylococcus and streptococcus) including antibiotic resistant strains. It is also at least five times more effective than Australian Tea Tree Oil against some fungi, including those responsible for Athletes Foot.

http://www.herbal100.com/manuka.htm

A good read: http://www.unionchemical.com.tw/man...etics/Inca Jojoba oil/Promagna Manuka Oil.pdf

 

[Nashville Hairline]

OMG had transplants. IH you can't tell. He's never provided decent pics..and the vids have that convenient bright light thing going on. Nid..what you said.

"as long as their intentions are good" ..I won't even comment on that :woot:

I was going to post links to some topicals worth trying out(IMO)..but it looks like you want to do a do-it-yourself..and cheap..deal.

Have you seen IH is charging for Skype consultations now? $99 per hour! :thumbdown2:

 

[Hoppi]

OMG had transplants. IH you can't tell. He's never provided decent pics..and the vids have that convenient bright light thing going on. Nid..what you said.

"as long as their intentions are good" ..I won't even comment on that :woot:

I was going to post links to some topicals worth trying out(IMO)..but it looks like you want to do a do-it-yourself..and cheap..deal.

Have you seen IH is charging for Skype consultations now? $99 per hour! :thumbdown2:

haha well.. I guess we all want to make money in this world don't we really? And ideally doing something we enjoy or are interested in!

I am mainly on their forum because I like the forum, not because I follow IH or OMG or anyone like that to any real extent. I listen to them, but not really any more than any other poster.


EDIT -- Also, for the record, if I do work out or stumble upon a treatment/cure that works, I won't try to charge for it or anything - I'll just tell everyone what it is I think it's too important and can make too big a difference for too many people to keep it secret. I may put it on my new health site though to get people more enthusiastic about the site! heh

 

[Jacob]

OMG had transplants. IH you can't tell. He's never provided decent pics..and the vids have that convenient bright light thing going on. Nid..what you said.

"as long as their intentions are good" ..I won't even comment on that :woot:

I was going to post links to some topicals worth trying out(IMO)..but it looks like you want to do a do-it-yourself..and cheap..deal.

Have you seen IH is charging for Skype consultations now? $99 per hour! :thumbdown2:

Yep. Now it's like those goofballs that say you won't do as well unless you purchase and read the book.

And as usual Hoppi is only interested in posting...oh never-mind :shakehead:

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Yep. Now it's like those goofballs that say you won't do as well unless you purchase and read the book.

And as usual Hoppi is only interested in posting...oh never-mind :shakehead:

So true...he'll probably stop giving his "advice" on his forum permanently and just point to his signature in future

Hoppi well I'd love to charge money to vulnerable bald guys for my treatments with zero evidence but I couldn't sleep at night doing it!
Oh well, I'm sure there's lots of "buyer beware" type disclaimers when you follow his PayPal link so I guess anyone who parts with $99 should consider themselves aware of the risks.