a visit to dr. lee
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The Gardener
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Dwings,
You can find him via his website at http://www.minoxidil.com
Keep in mind that he is just one voice in the crowd. But, I am glad that there are people out there like him.
He does sell some very novel products, I happen to think his 5% minoxidil solution with 30% PPG (as opposed to the 50% in Rogaine and in generics) is brilliant. Has made my am minoxidil application grease and embarassment free and has saved me countless hours of waiting for the sh*t to dry. Thank you Doctor Lee for your minoxidil!
You can find him via his website at http://www.minoxidil.com
Keep in mind that he is just one voice in the crowd. But, I am glad that there are people out there like him.
He does sell some very novel products, I happen to think his 5% minoxidil solution with 30% PPG (as opposed to the 50% in Rogaine and in generics) is brilliant. Has made my am minoxidil application grease and embarassment free and has saved me countless hours of waiting for the sh*t to dry. Thank you Doctor Lee for your minoxidil!
dr. lee told me he is retiring...basically not doing consultaions anymore...too time consuming he said...he wants to spend more time doing research, etc...i would still call him and see if you can see him...he know has another doctor that will be doing consultaions at the office...i like lee though
good luck
ciao
good luck
ciao
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The Gardener said:
I'm surprised at that, too! In fact, you could knock me over with a feather right now! :shock:
It's unfortunate that I just now read this thread...I would have had VICCI ask Dr. Lee a VERY simple question which I have been unable to get anybody else to ask him, despite several requests: "Dr. Lee, if topical azelaic acid reduces DHT by up to 98% (or whatever the figure is that he claims), then how come it has no effect on sebum production?" Damnit, I missed a golden opportunity to have that question put to him! :-x
BTW, in regards to the minoxidil questions being discussed in this thread: the general consensus of all the minoxidil studies that I've read (which is a bunch) seems to be that the maximum effect of topical minoxidil is seen after about a year of use. Funny that that also seems to be the case with ALL hairloss medications...
Bryan
Hairybush1
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See Bryan. You need to be spending more time with us over here at HairLossTalk.com, then you would have had your question answered. Hope you learned your lesson :lol:
The Gardener
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That's right, Bryan. The real sh*t is here, at HairLossTalk.com, Bryan.
Just kidding, bud.
As for your question about Xandrox and sebum... I don't understand the premise of your question. Sebum and DHT are not linked. DHT is a hormonal-related substance that attacks the follicle at a microscopic level, in the blood stream. Sebum is a macroscopic substance secreted in skin pores. One can have lots of sebum and not have male pattern baldness. One can have male pattern baldness and very little sebum, like me.
Despite the rantings of many snake oil salesmen, I have yet to be convinced that sebum has anything to do with male pattern baldness. I have a very dry scalp, but the hair it keeps a sheddin.
Just kidding, bud.
As for your question about Xandrox and sebum... I don't understand the premise of your question. Sebum and DHT are not linked. DHT is a hormonal-related substance that attacks the follicle at a microscopic level, in the blood stream. Sebum is a macroscopic substance secreted in skin pores. One can have lots of sebum and not have male pattern baldness. One can have male pattern baldness and very little sebum, like me.
Despite the rantings of many snake oil salesmen, I have yet to be convinced that sebum has anything to do with male pattern baldness. I have a very dry scalp, but the hair it keeps a sheddin.
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The Gardener said:
Oh, yes they are!! I can GUARANTEE you that they are closely linked! Sebaceous glands are exquisitely sensitive to androgens, and they are among the most 5a-reductase-rich tissues in the body and produce large amounts of DHT. Removing androgens and DHT from sebaceous glands makes them shrivel up and reduce their production of sebum. If you don't believe me, you can probably finds hundreds (if not thousands) of abstracts on Medline/PubMed about seb glands and androgens.
A very common screening test for new antiandrogens and 5a-reductase inhibitors (especially topical ones) is the hamster flank organ test, which involves exposing one flank organ (which is basically a mass of sebaceous glands) to the potential new drug, and seeing if it makes the gland shrink down in size. Sebaceous glands are very sensitive to androgens (and conversely, antiandrogens).
Bryan
The Gardener
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I stand corrected, Bryan. Nice piece of information. But even if DHT and sebum are related, I would definitely NOT say that sebum and male pattern baldness are related.
Like I said, I have a very dry, sebum-free scalp and am still an NW3. And I know many who complain of oily hair and yet they have a fantastic, youthful hairline.
Like I said, I have a very dry, sebum-free scalp and am still an NW3. And I know many who complain of oily hair and yet they have a fantastic, youthful hairline.
The Gardener said:
I think that 30% PPG does more bad than good. I mean Rogaine does not have 50% PPG for no reason. PPG makes scalp greasy so alcohol does not evaporate prematurely. Alcohol is helping minoxidil absorb into scalp. So the quicker your scalp dries the less minoxidil will be absorbed. I am using Dr. Lee’s minoxidil because of retin A but I do add some generic minoxidil into it just to make it greasier. However, I’m shaving my head so I guess this makes it easier for me to deal wit greasiness.
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The Gardener said:
Well, that's a controversial issue. I think they're probably at least somewhat INDIRECTLY related, since they are both so closely associated with androgens. BTW, standard male-pattern hairloss used to be referred to as "seborrheic alopecia" not that many years ago. And here's an entry from a medical dictionary I have which was last copyrighted in 1975 as a "newly revised third edition":
"seborrheic dermatitis: A skin disease due to overproduction of the sebaceous glands. When it affects the scalp, this condition often leads to baldness."
The Gardener said:
I think the general TREND is for hairloss sufferers to have greater sebum production on average, because of the close association of both follicles and sebaceous glands with androgenic activity; however, there are always those exceptions to the general trend!
Bryan
The Gardener
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HairFreak,
I agree with you completely. Personally, I very much prefer the standard Rogaine recipe for minoxidil. If you roll your mouse over the "My Regimen" button of my avatar, you will see that I only use Dr Lee in the am and use Rogaine in the pm.
Just as you said, I like the 50% PPG in Rogaine because I like the way it sticks to my hair shafts and it just seems to disseminate more effectively. The only reason I use Dr Lee in the am is because I came across way too many mornings where I did not have enough time to wait for Rogaine to dry (I'm a very high level white collar professional whose lifestyle demands a very early start in the am) and on those fast-paced mornings I would rather use the fast-drying Dr Lee concoction than completely skipping that am application of minoxidil because I did not want to arrive at work with a noticeably greasy head full of Rogaine. In my opinion, an am application of Dr Lee's 5% is better than having to skip the application because I'm afraid that the Rogaine will not dry completely.
I agree with you completely. Personally, I very much prefer the standard Rogaine recipe for minoxidil. If you roll your mouse over the "My Regimen" button of my avatar, you will see that I only use Dr Lee in the am and use Rogaine in the pm.
Just as you said, I like the 50% PPG in Rogaine because I like the way it sticks to my hair shafts and it just seems to disseminate more effectively. The only reason I use Dr Lee in the am is because I came across way too many mornings where I did not have enough time to wait for Rogaine to dry (I'm a very high level white collar professional whose lifestyle demands a very early start in the am) and on those fast-paced mornings I would rather use the fast-drying Dr Lee concoction than completely skipping that am application of minoxidil because I did not want to arrive at work with a noticeably greasy head full of Rogaine. In my opinion, an am application of Dr Lee's 5% is better than having to skip the application because I'm afraid that the Rogaine will not dry completely.
The Gardener
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Bryan said:
I think the general TREND is for hairloss sufferers to have greater sebum production on average, because of the close association of both follicles and sebaceous glands with androgenic activity; however, there are always those exceptions to the general trend!
Bryan[/quote:7aa2b]
Point taken, Bryan. I don't necessarily disagree with what you are saying. I just hope that there are not male pattern baldness sufferers out there who read what you say and think they that combat MBP by getting rid of the sebum on their heads. Even taking anti-sebum shampoos will not rid them of their male pattern baldness. Lots of snake oil salesmen say this, and they are robbing us male pattern baldness sufferers of hard earned money. It is not the sebum that causes the male pattern baldness, it is the DHT that causes both the sebum AND the male pattern baldness. This being the case, it is possible to take treatments that reduce sebum, but they are still not helping reduce male pattern baldness unless the treatments are also helping rid the DHT. I know what you are saying, and I think you know what I am saying, and I don't think we are necessarily in disagreement. Keep on keepin' on, bud. Gardener
Hairybush1
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The more i read, the more i am starting to realize that most of what we think we know as fact is really still a guessing game. Some guys say DHT and sebum are related. Some say they're not . Some guys say you cant get more acne on your back from finasteride, but my expereince has just been the total opposite, my back looks frigging awful. On and on it goes.
At this point, I am serioulsy considering dropping everything and just putting my confidence in follicular cloning. At least, if this technology comes out and its very successful in the majority of men, it will make anti-androgens/androgen manipulation a thing of the past, (for me anyway).
At this point, I am serioulsy considering dropping everything and just putting my confidence in follicular cloning. At least, if this technology comes out and its very successful in the majority of men, it will make anti-androgens/androgen manipulation a thing of the past, (for me anyway).
bombscience
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Bryan said:
Interesting what you say here about minoxidil. I've been using it for 6 months now religiously with no results (my hair has progressively gotten thinner for the last 6 months steadily). This maximum effect wouldn't apply to someone who may be a non-responder, correct? You're talking about the fact that a person who does respond to minoxidil seeing the most hair grown approximately 1 year after starting the treatment, right?
bombscience
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HairFreak said:
The high concentration of PPG in Rogaine forumlated minoxidil is only to increase the shelf life of the product, not for the purposes of absorption.
The Gardener
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Thanks, bomb... that is truly a good thing to know. I have wondered the same thing myself and your factoid above completely explains it.
bombscience
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The Gardener said:
Just to clear up the "i'm not talking out my ***" side of this comment. I metion this because that's how dr. lee explained it to me.
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bombscience said:
Hmm...well, kind of a tricky question there, but if you're really a complete non-responder, then it obviously doesn't matter how long you try to use it. However, I wouldn't use it for just a short period of time before deciding that you're a non-responder. Whether or not 6 months falls into the category of a "short period of time" is debateable.
bombscience said:
Yes.
Bryan