a saw palmetto hair loss trial

[grinja the ninja]

Hi,

taking saw palmetto myself, I wanted to see if there was any trials that had been published, and for a long time it seemed that there was only anecdotal evidence at best, that it worked.

Then I found this journal article a couple of years old, alas, I cannot access it for the content, but it seems to suggest that Saw Palmetto has some success in helping treat hair loss.

One thing I have seen is that articles suggest Finasteride can reduce serum levels of DHT whereas SP does not. So they obviously work slightly differently.

Anyway here is the link:

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10 ... almetto%29

 

[mvpsoft]

A study with ten participants, and six were subjectively rated as "improved?" Geez, no wonder that "study" was published in a third-rate journal.

 

[Rage]

The results was 6 people out of 10..

here's another article-

"In comparison with the finasteride effect on prostatic DHT levels (80% reduction from levels seen in untreated men, Fig. 2B), the saw palmetto effectâ€â€￾although statistically significantâ€â€￾appears to be modest, both in terms of the nadir value and the percentage of reduction from control. Furthermore, the tissue testosterone levels, which were markedly elevated in the finasteride-treated men (Fig. 2), were unchanged by treatment with SPHB. Serum DHT levels, which characteristically decline by approximately 70% with finasteride treatment, [18] were unchanged during the 6 months of saw palmetto treatment"

Marks, L.S., Hess, L.D., Dorey, F.J., Macairan, M.L., Santos, P.B.C., and, Tyler, V.E. (2001). Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens. Urology 57, 999-1005.

Link

 

[HairlossTalk]

Ninja, that study was labeled "bunk" on national television in January 2003 on 20/20.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[grinja the ninja]

I have to agree, if the study was only based on 10 people it would have to be pretty inconclusive. Because you would normally have a lot more study subjects than this, I assumed that the 6/10 ratio they gave meant just that and not 6 out of only 10 subjects had success.

I can't believe there has not been a comprehensive study of saw palmetto topical or non-topical treatments for hair loss. Bizarre.

Anyway, based upon what they say about dht serum levels staying the same, I might switch to rubbing it in rather than taking it with meals, maybe it works better that way.

 

[blueshard]

Effectiveness of Serenoa Repens on Androgenetic Alopecia

Aim: the aim of this double blinded study was to evaluate the activity performed by 3 different cosmetic formulations especially enriched with Serenoa Repens extract with a known quantity of total sterols on the hair growth and serbum secretion.

Method: 34 men and 28 women, aged 18-48 were divided into 3 groups using the products for 3 months. The first group used all 3 products enriched with Serenoa repens extract, the second of all 3 products (placebo free of Serenoa repens extract), and the third group use used shampoo and lotion enriched with Serenoa repens extract, but dietary supplement placebo.

Results: the results showed a significant 35% hair increase both on number and mass, and a contemporary 67% decrease superficial sebum in the 1st group. Group 3 revealed a hair increase of 20% with a contemporary decrease of deborrhea 35%. Group 2 had no results.

Conclusions: this study confirms effectiveness of Serenoa repens extract on hair baldness such as androgenetic alopecia, especially when connected with 5 alpha reductase activity.

The authors are:
C. Fasulo
A. Linguiti
L. Bosco
P. Morganti
RA Satriano
BioMedical Trichology and Dermatology Clinic
Battipaglia, Italy

Secretary General of the International Society of Cosmetic Dermatology (ISCD) Cosmetic Dermatology
University of Naples, Italy

 

[HairlossTalk]

Baloney. 3 months?

In 3 months someone who isn't even experiencing male pattern baldness can increase the # of hairs in any given area of the scalp simply because the hair is cycling back into growth. Hair cycles in growth and resting phases as a general rule.

Studies that last less than 6 months to 1 year are pointless for this very reason. 3 months. I can't even believe these guys bothered to publish this.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[grinja the ninja]

thanks for that blueshard. Although I guess HairLossTalk.com is right, 3 months is only the cycle time of telogen so its inconclusive.

I guess one of the reasons I have gone for saw palmetto even though I don't really have proof about it is that I had BPH a few years ago and I self-medicated SP, I am almost 100% positive it helped.

Of course it is a different condition to androgenetic alopecia but essentially both are caused by DHT.

That's why I'm willing to try it I suppose.

HairLossTalk.com, have you heard of any natural therapies that seem to have some measure of success with folks, or at least any conclusive clinical trial data on natural products/ vitamins?

There must be something surely!!!

 

[Whoome?]

lol good luck ninja.. over here on HairLossTalk.com everything's solid based on FDA approval, they'll never help ya on the area of natural or possible treatments.

 

[HairlossTalk]

This is why most people use SP. They think that since it works for BPH it must work for hair loss. The two conditions are extremely different even if they have similarities.

There are tons and tons of studies showing SP was effective in treating symptoms of BPH. Zero that show it is effective at treating hair loss.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[HairlossTalk]

lol good luck ninja.. over here on HairLossTalk.com everything's solid based on FDA approval, they'll never help ya on the area of natural or possible treatments.

What kind of comment is this?

Are Revivigen, Folligen, Crinagen, Spironolactone, Nano, Tricomin, etc. etc. etc. "FDA Approved" ? Think before you speak. The point is that "NATURAL" treatments have zero data backing them.

I would be interested in knowing how you'd help someone when it comes to the main questions people have like dosage, effectiveness, and the ins and outs of taking something... if it were "natural" and had no studies or data to give you any information on it. What information would you rely on to provide help to someone?

Its not that we're idiots who only support FDA approved products. Its that nobody out there has bothered to test the "natural or possible" (what does that mean anyway? natural or possible) treatments to give us any data to rely on or lean on as peace of mind that they might work.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Guest]

I heard Saw Palmetto was effective on Type 1 DHT which is good in small doses for men's prostate and has little or no effect on hairloss which is possibly related to type 2 dht.

It is assumed that Saw Palmetto can be good for hairloss only because finasteride which was used for prostate grew some hair in those who used it.

This is where the DHT hype came from!
Do you see the conection.

The only reason we think dht is the main cause of male pattern baldness is because a dht inhibiting drug had a side effect for men, it grew balding hair.

And so everyone and there mom tried marketing this way. Some other snake oil companies took that a step farther and manufactured a number of natural compounds that showed to be good for the prostate because of a reduction in Type 1 DHT with out doing any research. This is considered legal as well since there has not been any studies to indicate otherwise. Do you like apples....?

How do you like them apples?

So if you want to make a patented snake oil, and bypass a lot of strict laws and regulations, just manufacture a compound with something NATURAL that has been shown efective for the prostate (type 1 dht) in some way.

I beleive thats why Procerin used numerous amounts of natural compounds all in one so it could reserve it's patent on all of those compounds. They are so arrogantly crafty in their own right that they list the ingredients. Not only does this hold the patent on their compounds but it also is very cunning towards the laws and regulations towards approved medicines.

If I must say, The owners of procerin are ingenious for the scam they have come up with. It amazes me that they can have a monopoly for a fake product and it is pretty much legal. At least for now.

Q. Have you ever known anyone to grow hair with saw palmetto?

 

[Side Show Bob]

Well, saw palmetto worked well for me. It stopped my shedding overnight...it worked THAT well.

And while I'm on it, since when did 20/20 become the standard in investigative journalism?

Barbara Walters? Give me a break!!!

 

[HairlossTalk]

Consistently, the only people who say Saw Palmetto worked for them, are the ones who don't seem to understand how hair loss works.

It is physically, scientifically, and logically impossible for it to have worked overnight. Sorry.

HairLossTalk.com

:roll:

 

[Guest]

Bump for a interesting conversation

Side show bob, you are full of sh*t! Now some 17 year old kid will see your post and think Saw Palmetto will work for them!

 

[Guest]

Bump

 

[grinja the ninja]

Okay, I can see that there is not a lot of evidence for SP working to fix hair loss. I still intend to try it.

However, that leaves one question which needs to be answered properly by HairLossTalk.com.

I too got the impression that this site was mainly about FDA approved treatments, you know, your minoxs and fins.

However, as HairLossTalk.com points out in his post above, Crinagen and Revivogen and other similar treatments are advertised on this site. I checked out the ingredients in some of these.

What did I find? Well this is quoted off this website:

Crinagen - "Crinagen uses natural substances as its active components. It is intended to offer users a natural alternative to the synthetic chemical treatments (such as minoxidil). Crinagen is in the class of clinically efficacious yet unproven treatments" "The two most powerful ingredients of are Zinc and Saw Palmetto. Both agents have been shown to block the conversion of male sex hormones (such as testosterone) into dihydrotestosterone (DHT)."

Well the key ingredients are ALL NATURAL - a fatty acid, some vitamins, a mineral and two plant extracts. These are all natural - by definition - yet HairLossTalk.com says, quote "The point is that "NATURAL" treatments have zero data backing them. " Just because the ingredients are all rolled into one product, doesn't make it non-natural.

And how come they are said, on your website, to have been shown to block the conversion of hormones to DHT. I thought there was no clinical data for natural treatments???

Revivogen - quote, "A topically applied DHT inhibitor that contains more scientifically backed ingredients for inhibiting DHT than you can shake a stick at." "The ingredients used in the Scalp Therapy formula have been proven to inhibit the 5AR enzyme that is responsible for the formation of DHT. Additionally, while Propecia is only able to inhibit type II serum 5AR levels by 70%, the ingredients in Scalp Therapy Formula are able to inhibit both types can equally inhibit both type I and II 5AR up to 98%"

Again the key ingredients are ALL NATURAL - "The active ingredients of Revivogenâ„¢ are natural compounds proven to be potent inhibitors of 5-Alpha-Reductase, the enzyme that produces DHT" - proanthos (from grape seed extract), some fatty acids, a vitamin, a mineral and saw palmetto extract (yes a natural plant extract). B6 and zinc is sometimes known as zix when combined.

Well this product is even touted here as potentially more useful than propecia. And yes, I know that the fatty acids and proanthos have been scientifically proven to be effective in inhibiting 5AR. What about the others?

The point is, HairLossTalk.com bags "natural" therapies or continuously casts doubt on their abilities (sure, its great to be sceptical). But for one thing, this is definitely misleading given that "proven" inhibitors such as GLA are "natural", eg. it comes from Evening Primrose plant. And saw palmetto, which yes, is largely unproven, still turns up in products which are given praise by this website. To quote you HairLossTalk.com, "There are tons and tons of studies showing SP was effective in treating symptoms of BPH. Zero that show it is effective at treating hair loss".

You can't have it both ways HairLossTalk.com. I'm not criticising your products, however, you're either for natural treatments or against. And products like Revivogen sound pretty natural to me. You can't knock these "natural" compounds when they constitute much of your advertised formulations, and especially when your own website suggests these ingredients are scientifically proven.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Okay, I can see that there is not a lot of evidence for SP working to fix hair loss.

Correction. There is zero evidence. There is only speculation. People have tried and failed to provide evidence. Important correction.

I too got the impression that this site was mainly about FDA approved treatments, you know, your minoxs and fins.

Then you didn't read the site. There are about 10 other products that don't have FDA approval that I personally promote and use. I don't even use FDA approved products in my regimen. This is only an issue of you not reading the site.

yet HairLossTalk.com says, quote "The point is that "NATURAL" treatments have zero data backing them."

No. I didn't say that. If you're going to attempt to engage me in a challenging debate, you might want to get your quotes correct first.

I have never made the statement that all natural treatments have zero data backing them. I have said the opposite. Therefore your entire premise for your entire, rather long winded accusatory post, is wrong, and that renders your entire, rather long winded post pointless.

As a side note, I don't even believe in the term "natural". By definition, something is a drug if it does anything to affect or alter the processes of the human body. Pull it out of the ground or grow it on a pharmaceuticul company's shelf, its still a drug.

Let me know when you've

1) actually read this site and
2) actually read what I've typed and understood it correctly.

Then I will respond to your questions. You will find however, in your research, that your questions will be answered when you find what I have said.

Here's a hint: There is a huge difference between "natural" ingredients that have data backing them and "natural" ingredients that don't. Some do, and some don't.

There is a million miles between the data on things like topically applied spironolactone and topically applied Fatty Acids found in Revivogen and Crinagen... and the data on orally ingested Saw Palmetto.

This would require that you educate yourself on the actual study data though. "Natural" proponents rarely bother with scientific studies. For some reason their criteria for effectiveness is subjective opinions rather than clinical data. That reminds me of pre-rennaisance times.

This is the entire source of your misunderstanding however.

HairLossTalk.com