A Possible Idea To Prevent Finasteride Side Effects

[Timii]

As you all know, it's more likely to get side effects from finasteride if you are expecting it, this is called nocebo effect. So I thought that if you manage to brainwash yourself to not get any side effects, then you might have a 95% chance of not getting them, which is good (hopefully this is the real probability). So maybe this video could be helpful

 

[INT]

Cool, I am sure this will get my morning wood back.

To be honest dude, this is a bit disrespectful to people who actually got fucked up bad by the drug.

 

[Timii]

That's why I said "prevent" and not "reduce", this thread is meant for people who want to start finasteride and are concerned about the side effects

 

[JeanLucBB]

Cool, I am sure this will get my morning wood back.

To be honest dude, this is a bit disrespectful to people who actually got fucked up bad by the drug.

Half the placebo group in all the major studies got sexual sides. Get the f*** over it. At least half as many men in the relevant age group in finasteride studies from the general population have sexual disfunction or chronic fatigue, which aligns with other quoted side effects.

There's also a study where they tell the participants in advance of a high likelihood of sexual sides and double the usual amount get sides, and same f*****g thing with the placebo.

Also to the initial point when I got on finasteride at 22 I told myself that only pathetic *** cucks with low T got sides, whether or not that helped.

 

[INT]

Half the placebo group in all the major studies got sexual sides. Get the f*** over it. At least half as many men in the relevant age group in finasteride studies from the general population have sexual disfunction or chronic fatigue, which aligns with other quoted side effects.

There's also a study where they tell the participants in advance of a high likelihood of sexual sides and double the usual amount get sides, and same f*****g thing with the placebo.

Also to the initial point when I got on finasteride at 22 I told myself that only pathetic *** cucks with low T got sides, whether or not that helped.

What point are you trying to make? That everyone that experiences side effects on finasteride are a case of nocebo?

 

[JeanLucBB]

What point are you trying to make? That everyone that experiences side effects on finasteride are a case of nocebo?

 

[INT]

If my assumption is so completely different from what you meant, then please elaborate what it is that you meant.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

There are enough independent reports of side effects to know that its a real issue. People report consistent side effects, often without knowing about them in advance . we've seen dozens to hundreds of posters on this forum, and thousands elsewhere. The same side effects are not reported by users of other treatments, so we know that they are regulated to the chemistry of finasteride. Some use the pharmaceutical studies as evidence in support, but the fact is that those studies did not test for neurosteroids, they didn't do proper tests of dosage, were found to have a lot of other problems, and moreover, the pharmaceutical companies have a history of incomplete honesty.

If a company released a drug tomorrow that inhibited DHT without inhibiting 5ar, every single one of the people who now cope by saying that finasteride is harmless would switch to using that weaker drug.

One of the clearest cases of side effects that I can recall is that of former poster @RhinestoneHLT . He took finasteride for nearly a year, and reported no side effects, just like in the clinical trials. What happened next is that ... it was his wife that informed him that he had sexual side effects. He was no longer slapping her ***. It's a failure of those studies that many men will not notice a ~20% decrease in sexual virility. He went of finasteride, switched to RU+minoxidil, maintained his hair, and his side effects went away after a few months.

That said, though the side effects are real, the drug is nonetheless very effective. The most likely outcome is that it will stop your hairloss, and you'll keep what you have. That is a good outcome, to top it off the drug also happens to be very affordable, I'm pretty sure that it's the cheapest of the available treatments. My sincere recommendation to most people is that they try fionasteride at a lower dose (~0.20 mg/day, like in Japan) and see how that goes. If they have side effects after a few months, they should stop. If the side effects persist, they should look into the CDnuts protocol, which people have had a lot of success using to end persistent side effects from finasteride.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

You're quoting Jordan Peterson, who is somebody who would also be dismissed as a crackpot if one were a sheepish follower of conventional medical wisdom.

He has a lot of auto-immune issues, and had a history of obesity and anxiety. In a recent interview, he said that those issues went away when he shifted to a long-term ketogenic diet, he only eats meats and greens now. He's lost ~23 Kg (a full suitcase !), he sleeps better, his social awareness is improved, etc. I believe him 100%. I don't quite understand what the scientific mechanism is, but it's sufficiently precise as to be believable, lots of other people report similar issues. Separately, it's an issue that it may not be tested scientifically because it's difficult to test scientifically.

The mainstream medical consensus on the ketogenic diet is that it's useful to treat epilepsy, and that it otherwise has no value. Peterson's experience is in direct contradiction to that. If you're totally mainstream, then you must dismiss Peterson as a crackpot.

My advocacy for anecdotes may strike you as peculiar given that I'm a professional scientist. It is peculiar, a lot of people that I work with routinely rail against anti-toxin, anti-gluten, etc arguments. The way I see it is that medical science is incomplete, a lot of things are hard to test for independent of the presence of corruption, and thus we have no choice but to give weight to anecdotes. One day doctors will know everything, but by then we'll be too old to give or sh*t, or dead.

 

[JeanLucBB]

There are enough independent reports of side effects to know that its a real issue. People report consistent side effects, often without knowing about them in advance . we've seen dozens to hundreds of posters on this forum, and thousands elsewhere. The same side effects are not reported by users of other treatments, so we know that they are regulated to the chemistry of finasteride. Some use the pharmaceutical studies as evidence in support, but the fact is that those studies did not test for neurosteroids, they didn't do proper tests of dosage, were found to have a lot of other problems, and moreover, the pharmaceutical companies have a history of incomplete honesty.

If a company released a drug tomorrow that inhibited DHT without inhibiting 5ar, every single one of the people who now cope by saying that finasteride is harmless would switch to using that weaker drug.

One of the clearest cases of side effects that I can recall is that of former poster @RhinestoneHLT . He took finasteride for nearly a year, and reported no side effects, just like in the clinical trials. What happened next is that ... it was his wife that informed him that he had sexual side effects. He was no longer slapping her ***. It's a failure of those studies that many men will not notice a ~20% decrease in sexual virility. He went of finasteride, switched to RU+minoxidil, maintained his hair, and his side effects went away after a few months.

That said, though the side effects are real, the drug is nonetheless very effective. The most likely outcome is that it will stop your hairloss, and you'll keep what you have. That is a good outcome, to top it off the drug also happens to be very affordable, I'm pretty sure that it's the cheapest of the available treatments. My sincere recommendation to most people is that they try fionasteride at a lower dose (~0.20 mg/day, like in Japan) and see how that goes. If they have side effects after a few months, they should stop. If the side effects persist, they should look into the CDnuts protocol, which people have had a lot of success using to end persistent side effects from finasteride.

Rational post on the issue, although any man that is married for a while and getting older is going to lose sexual interest in their partner. I have a mate who says he's virtually stopped having sex with his girlfriend of four years and is bored with it in general, difference is that there isn't a drug like finasteride involved to blame it on.

Also many of these studies have also gone from 5-10 years, it isn't accurate to imply that the clinical trials didn't run long enough to pick up on this.

 

[JeanLucBB]

You're quoting Jordan Peterson, who is somebody who would also be dismissed as a crackpot if one were a sheepish follower of conventional medical wisdom.

He has a lot of auto-immune issues, and had a history of obesity and anxiety. In a recent interview, he said that those issues went away when he shifted to a long-term ketogenic diet, he only eats meats and greens now. He's lost ~23 Kg (a full suitcase !), he sleeps better, his social awareness is improved, etc. I believe him 100%. I don't quite understand what the scientific mechanism is, but it's sufficiently precise as to be believable, lots of other people report similar issues. Separately, it's an issue that it may not be tested scientifically because it's difficult to test scientifically.

The mainstream medical consensus on the ketogenic diet is that it's useful to treat epilepsy, and that it otherwise has no value. Peterson's experience is in direct contradiction to that. If you're totally mainstream, then you must dismiss Peterson as a crackpot.

My advocacy for anecdotes may strike you as peculiar given that I'm a professional scientist. It is peculiar, a lot of people that I work with routinely rail against anti-toxin, anti-gluten, etc arguments. The way I see it is that medical science is incomplete, a lot of things are hard to test for independent of the presence of corruption, and thus we have no choice but to give weight to anecdotes. One day doctors will know everything, but by then we'll be too old to give or sh*t, or dead.

I was specifically quoting him because of INT's question, nothing at all to do with what Peterson said. If you'd actually watched the interview or looked into the massive hysteria it caused you'd know exactly what I'm referring to. It's very obvious.

"What point are you trying to make? That everyone that experiences side effects on finasteride are a case of nocebo?"

Watch the interview and figure it out. For the record I agree with some of those points you make.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Rational post on the issue, although any man that is married for a while and getting older is going to lose sexual interest in their partner. I have a mate who says he's virtually stopped having sex with his girlfriend of four years and is bored with it in general, difference is that there isn't a drug like finasteride involved to blame it on.

Also many of these studies have also gone from 5-10 years, it isn't accurate to imply that the clinical trials didn't run long enough to pick up on this.

Most likely, the majority of users do not experience significant side effects.

What I'd like to see, which I'm probably not going to see:
- More resolution in the dosage response of finasteride, with corresponding pills easily available. There are, I think, two independent studies showing full inhibition of DHT at 0.05 mg/day, and the foreign clinical trials showing full hair maintenance at 0.20 mg/day. Yet you can't buy those dosages in North America.
- Measurement of the dosage response on neurosteroids during and after use of 5ar inhibitors.

We might get the first thing from the polichem trials, I think that those are coming out this year.

Rhinestone said that his sexuality recovered when he got off the drug, though it took several months.

I was specifically quoting him because of INT's question, nothing at all to do with what Peterson said. If you'd actually watched the interview or looked into the massive hysteria it caused you'd know exactly what I'm referring to. It's very obvious.

"What point are you trying to make? That everyone that experiences side effects on finasteride are a case of nocebo?"

Watch the interview and figure it out. For the record I agree with some of those points you make.

Sorry, I can't listen to it, I'm not in a private space now. Since you insist, I'll watch it later and let you know.

 

[Giiizmo]

Finasteride can possibly lead to a depletion of protective neuroactive steroids (= depression, brain fog) and damage the pudendal nerve (= control of erection).

This isn't just speculation. We've had this discussion before: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nent-ed-and-peripheral-nervour-system.105909/ .

 

[JeanLucBB]

Most likely, the majority of users do not experience significant side effects.

What I'd like to see, which I'm probably not going to see:
- More resolution in the dosage response of finasteride, with corresponding pills easily available. There are, I think, two independent studies showing full inhibition of DHT at 0.05 mg/day, and the foreign clinical trials showing full hair maintenance at 0.20 mg/day. Yet you can't buy those dosages in North America.
- Measurement of the dosage response on neurosteroids during and after use of 5ar inhibitors.

We might get the first thing from the polichem trials, I think that those are coming out this year.

Rhinestone said that his sexuality recovered when he got off the drug, though it took several months.


Sorry, I can't listen to it, I'm not in a private space now. Since you insist, I'll watch it later and let you know.

It's not the most insightful interview in the world, just watch for the interviewers responses whenever he makes a point. Hilariously epitomises one of the biggest problems with the average leftist (to a degree also conservatives) in their efforts or lack thereof to interpret the arguments of the opposition.

 

[Timii]

Finasteride can possibly lead to a depletion of protective neuroactive steroids (= depression, brain fog) and damage the pudendal nerve (= control of erection).

This isn't just speculation. We've had this discussion before: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...nent-ed-and-peripheral-nervour-system.105909/ .

But why does only a small fraction of all finasteride users have neurophysiologic damages? It's interesting because to me it's clear that finasteride affects brain-function regulators but only some people get serious damages

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

But why does only a small fraction of all finasteride users have neurophysiologic damages? It's interesting because to me it's clear that finasteride affects brain-function regulators but only some people get serious damages

We would need a study of the variation in response of neurosteroids to 5ar inhibitors.

 

[michel sapin]

sides effect of finasteride are real guys , and not only " low T beta " got them
unfortunately fina is the only solution nowadays
4 years on fina here and the sides are real

 

[g.i joey]

Finasteride sides are wayyyyy overblown. They definitely do exist, although I question the severity of them when members like INT make threads about wanting to restart finasteride after years of so called “recovery”... like really? One look in the mirror and you’re willing to give that so called horror story another go lol. doesn’t make sense to me

 

[SteveTabernack]

He has a lot of auto-immune issues, and had a history of obesity and anxiety. In a recent interview, he said that those issues went away when he shifted to a long-term ketogenic diet, he only eats meats and greens now. He's lost ~23 Kg (a full suitcase !), he sleeps better, his social awareness is improved, etc. I believe him 100%. I don't quite understand what the scientific mechanism is, but it's sufficiently precise as to be believable, lots of other people report similar issues. Separately, it's an issue that it may not be tested scientifically because it's difficult to test scientifically.

The mainstream medical consensus on the ketogenic diet is that it's useful to treat epilepsy, and that it otherwise has no value. Peterson's experience is in direct contradiction to that. If you're totally mainstream, then you must dismiss Peterson as a crackpot.

It's just consuming fewer calories man..

 

[INT]

Finasteride sides are wayyyyy overblown. They definitely do exist, although I question the severity of them when members like INT make threads about wanting to restart finasteride after years of so called “recovery”... like really? One look in the mirror and you’re willing to give that so called horror story another go lol. doesn’t make sense to me

Yeah to be honest for a second I was considering to make a new profile to talk about restarting finasteride knowing that I would add a little bit of credibility destruction to myself, and to everyone that got fucked over by the drug. I decided to just use my own account because I feel that, like is so often the case in a polarizing debate, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Here is my current view on finasteride:

- I do not believe in the 2%
- I do believe in persistent side effects from finasteride that are not just nocebo.
- I do believe that one can recover from from these persisting side effects. It just takes a lot of work but in the end, your entire health will benefit from the method of action.
- A lot of the stories of people that report side effects should not be taken serious and unfortunately they make people that actually get hit hard less credible.

I will try to explain why I am CONSIDERING restarting finasteride. Bear with me and after that you can judge me all you like.

I got hit by the side effects big time 2,5 years ago. Two weeks after my first pill I could not get ANY erection and I had to leave work to go to the hospital for a panic attack (which I had never had before). Till this point I had not even read about the side effects of finasteride. I heard some stories but I figured that that would only happen to low test beta males, just like whoever said that in this thread. Me, being the deep voiced, muscular, hairy, low fat 'alfa male' did not think that would happen to me. I started reading about the side effects and decided to drop the dosage. After some time the side effects got less but I became depressed. It was the time right after my graduation and I spent most of my time drinking, wasting time being hungover and even though I still went to the gym I did not take care of myself. Then I lost the love of my life at the time and I moved to another country which was Telogen Effluvium most stressful period I ever experienced. In 1 year I went from a guy that had a 9 girlfriend, was in great shape, studied what he loved, a full head of hair, living in his comfort zone to a depressed, anxious, balding loser who could not get his dick up, living in a big strange city where I knew no one, working at a job I hated.
Fast forward to now....At the moment I feel great, I have never been happier, I am healthy and I think I can say I am recovered. However... My hair has started to thin. I have long thick curly hair... I am not a bad looking guy and my hair is a big part of this. My nick name is Jon Snow... Guess that says it all.

There are so many questions I am having at the moment:

- What if my bad reaction to finasteride was because of my bad lifestyle at the time?
- What if my side effects were not that bad but just exacerbated by the sh*t that was going on in my life at the time?
- What if I would try it again, starting from a completely different baseline healthwise?
- Could I crack the PFS code? I have much more knowledge know about my own body and the drug on a hormonal and neurological level.
- Would I feel less shitty about my hair loss if I could get rid of the 'what if' feeling and I would find out that my body simply does not tolerate finasteride.

Look, what I went through at the time was horrible and I do not blame all of that on finasteride, that would be too easy Now that I know that you can recover from persisting side effects from the drug I just want to give it one last shot. That does not mean that I was imagining things at the time. What I felt was real.

My ego (can I beat this) and my vanity (can I keep this) are getting the best of me and I know it. I hope I can make it work but even if I don't I wouldn't mind becaus it will be easier for me to close my ears for them in the future.