A point about Finasteride administration

[moseymoose]

I would like to make a small point before I continue that I would honestly not have coped with my condition this long had it not been for some of the willing people on here to provide advise, experiences and support.

After much thought, and some helpful, appreciated and hopefully continuing feedback from people currently using Finasteride long term in the following thread:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=65889
It has given me a little more personal insight though the eyes of others to this drug, and furthermore a little more confidence.

The question I would like to pose in theory is the dosage and/or intervals of administration of the dose, I have already discussed with Finfighter in a second thread about the effective dosage of finasteride and have established that it is not dose dependant and is effective in as little as 0.05mg although much harder to obtain and requires accurate scales and some patience to get to that dose.

If I'm to try finasteride, I'd like to try it in as small a dosage as I can practically manage to find out if it works for me, though feel free to dispute this, if you have opinion.
My question is; The effects of Finasteride provide a reduction in bodily DHT by up to 90% for a period of 48 hours. Does this mean that even after 36 or 72 hours, the effects of the finasteride on DHT are still present even if only reducing the DHT within the body to 40%. Would this still have a beneficial effect on male pattern baldness if I was to take 1 dose every 36 hours? And the twice weekly increased level of DHT might allow other parts of the body to still receive higher amounts of DHT hormone, and could this theoretically, reduce the potential for any possible sides? I'm thinking this purely for the reason of why subject your body to a daily dosage of the drug if it is effective for 2, 3 or even 4 days?

Thoughts on this? I think it's an interesting point. I'd be willing to try this out ie finasteride every 2-3 days, I'm not too worried about it being any less effective, since I already know finasteride to be one the most effective forms of treating male pattern baldness I'm wondering what the effects of giving my body a bit more free reign of its DHT than near complete inhibition, and wether by doing this it gives an uneven imbalance of hormonal activity?

 

[Wuffer]

Hey there,

In my opinion, you are over thinking things too much. I know it seems right to learn as much as you can, but there are a lot of theories out there that haven’t necessarily been proven about Finasteride. In fact, nobody really knows everything about how the drug works. Even though something might make more sense when you work it out, it might not quite translate in reality. There are so many variables involved, and no two people are the same, so reactions to the medication can be different.

If you wish to begin treatment, I recommend starting at the normal 1mg dose daily. Like Finfighter said, it has a very low flat dose response.

If you experience side effects on this drug, there is no ‘safe’ effective dosage. Taking a lower dose may delay the inevitable, but you will always eventually experience problems even at the very small effective doses.

If this drug is not suitable for you, it’s best to realize this right away, then quit and move on, rather than taking tiny dosages and having the problems come about months later.

 

[Mens Rea]

Bad idea.

Why?

Firstly, due to the flat dosage premise. Although it does appear that more sides come from higher amounts, it does appear that the level of DHT inhibition is effectively the same if you take 0.25mg or 5mg. It's weird but its true. Due to this, i don't suppose less finasteride (i.e. less regular dosing) floating around your body will make much difference. If it did it might actually do damage as your DHT levels would be constantly bobbing about which means your hormones would be fluctuating daily. That could well disrupt the endoctrine system. It needs stability.

In short: It could do more damage than good. Not to mention the 5ARII enzymes are primarily found in hair follicles and prostrate. You wouldn't be able to "nourish" the prostrate with additional DHT without letting it get to the hair follicles. finasteride isnt that smart hence propeciahelp.com.

Not to mention, there are other much more complex considerations here which i wont get in to.

For your note:

Half life means HALF life, not full life of the drug in your body.

finasteride metabolites can stay in your body for a LONG amount of time so the drug can actually be in your system long after cessation anyway.

The figure is closer to 65% DHT inhibition i do believe. 90% total DHT is closely to Dutasteride's figures.

 

[moseymoose]

Hey there,

In my opinion, you are over thinking things too much. I know it seems right to learn as much as you can, but there are a lot of theories out there that haven’t necessarily been proven about Finasteride. In fact, nobody really knows everything about how the drug works. Even though something might make more sense when you work it out, it might not quite translate in reality. There are so many variables involved, and no two people are the same, so reactions to the medication can be different.

If you wish to begin treatment, I recommend starting at the normal 1mg dose daily. Like Finfighter said, it has a very low flat dose response.

If you experience side effects on this drug, there is no ‘safe’ effective dosage. Taking a lower dose may delay the inevitable, but you will always eventually experience problems even at the very small effective doses.

If this drug is not suitable for you, it’s best to realize this right away, then quit and move on, rather than taking tiny dosages and having the problems come about months later.

I understand your opinion. I just like thinking about things at all angles, partially for a bigger picture, partially because I find the discussion interesting. I have no more issue taking Finasteride daily than I do taking it every 3 days it is just a thought since I like to share my opinions.

It is worth me taking into consideration your point that a 1mg dose is more likely to surface any sides I might get from the drug earlier on that taking a 0.25mg quarter of the tablet. Though I prefer the idea of 'introducing' the drug into my system.

 

[moseymoose]

Bad idea.

Why?

Firstly, due to the flat dosage premise. Although it does appear that more sides come from higher amounts, it does appear that the level of DHT inhibition is effectively the same if you take 0.25mg or 5mg. It's weird but its true. Due to this, i don't suppose less finasteride (i.e. less regular dosing) floating around your body will make much difference. If it did it might actually do damage as your DHT levels would be constantly bobbing about which means your hormones would be fluctuating daily. That could well disrupt the endoctrine system. It needs stability.

In short: It could do more damage than good. Not to mention the 5ARII enzymes are primarily found in hair follicles and prostrate. You wouldn't be able to "nourish" the prostrate with additional DHT without letting it get to the hair follicles. finasteride isnt that smart hence propeciahelp.

Not to mention, there are other much more complex considerations here which i wont get in to.

For your note:

Half life means HALF life, not full life of the drug in your body.

finasteride metabolites can stay in your body for a LONG amount of time so the drug can actually be in your system long after cessation anyway.

The figure is closer to 65% DHT inhibition i do believe. 90% total DHT is closely to Dutasteride's figures.

This is a very good point you've made. I wasn't aware that 65% inhibition was more true. It makes me feel a lot more secure about taking the drug. I mean 65% Its practically half. Which means your only half as potent with hormone, it's not totally starving the body of hormones as I'd thought. Though it would be truly amazing for a drug to come around that inhibited only the receptors around the tissue in hair, but I won't bore you with my fascination with nano-technology.

:agree: I also see what you mean about dosage, which is the reason I don't see why taking 1mg is necessary, the smallest amount I can take for equal effect is both at interest to myself and the benefit of my wallet.

 

[Wuffer]

If you are interested in effectively weaning yourself onto the drug, here is a post on another forum that describes a method. Anecdotally, people report that this is effective in lessening side effects versus when they started taking 1mg/daily outright:

http://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/showthread.php?t=4809


Conversely, if you did happen to experience problems, it would likely be a safer method of weaning yourself off the drug as well, versus quitting cold turkey.

 

[sandyc]

I'm currently weening onto 1mg of Finpecia a day. I'm taking it twice a week now (wed and sat) and will move onto 3 a week in a week.

I do wonder if it's a bad idea however since like Men's Rea says, my system could be bobbing up and down. Could it in theory mean my system bounces the other way when I'm not taking finasteride and causes hairloss on those days? Would I be best maybe just doing 0.5mg a day?

 

[moseymoose]

If you are interested in effectively weaning yourself onto the drug, here is a post on another forum that describes a method. Anecdotally, people report that this is effective in lessening side effects versus when they started taking 1mg/daily outright:

http://www.baldtruthtaIk.com/showthread.php?t=4809


Conversely, if you did happen to experience problems, it would likely be a safer method of weaning yourself off the drug as well, versus quitting cold turkey.

Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Mens Rea]

:agree: I also see what you mean about dosage, which is the reason I don't see why taking 1mg is necessary, the smallest amount I can take for equal effect is both at interest to myself and the benefit of my wallet.

You've shown you can think for yourself here. Congratulations.

I completely agree. Take the minimum dose possible. Get the most "benefits" amd (hopefully) help lower the risk of the sides.

As i said, despite 5mg and 1mg having the same effective DHT inhibition the incidence of sides is much higher. Why? Because all these studies were based on were simple serum DHT levels. Clearly there is more going on inside the body with finasteride than simply DHT inhibition. In fact we know there is. Example - It stops progesterones converstion to dihydroprogesterone and also to allopregnanolone a critical neurosteroid. The studies are so simplistic it's bullshit.

So yes, good thinking. If you start it why not taking much smaller doses.

 

[moseymoose]

Though it would be truly amazing for a drug to come around that inhibited only the receptors around the tissue in hair, but I won't bore you with my fascination with nano-technolog

Dude their are drugs that do exactly that, I have been trying to tell you this all along! Read about RU58841 and CB-03-01 in the guide in my sig. Also read this forum that tells you how to buy RU- viewtopic.php?f=23&t=63049

If you need more info on CB PM me!

I am seriously confused, I don't understand a word in that thread. Do I have to make it myself? I don't have the money or time at the moment to start making my own medication. I need to start a treatment now. :/

Although I did read the side effects of RU in there. Which are exactly the same as finesterides So it obviously must work the same as finasteride to have the same sides. Plus I need to take a huge 50mg dose of it... which doesn't sound good.

 

[Wuffer]

You can easily have it prescribed if you have a family doctor. If not, just go to a walk-in clinic and ask for a prescription. Most doctors won't have a problem doing this for you.

I know that you feel time is of the essence, but balding progresses very slowly even in the worst cases of it. A few weeks or months won't make a huge difference.

It's a good idea to see your family doctor. Get necessary blood tests, talk to him/her about the medication, and go from there.

 

[moseymoose]

You can easily have it prescribed if you have a family doctor. If not, just go to a walk-in clinic and ask for a prescription. Most doctors won't have a problem doing this for you.

I know that you feel time is of the essence, but balding progresses very slowly even in the worst cases of it. A few weeks or months won't make a huge difference.

It's a good idea to see your family doctor. Get necessary blood tests, talk to him/her about the medication, and go from there.

though you say this, I have lost a shocking amount of hair in the last three months. On a level that can only really be compared to shedding. It seems relentless, and my hair is harder to style week by week.

 

[moseymoose]

I am seriously confused, I don't understand a word in that thread. Do I have to make it myself?

Dude, fighting hair loss requires some studying, and reading all of the information was in that thread!.

This is how it works.

A. You order RU58841 from OC which is a Canadian supplier, it is delivered in a powdered form.

OptionalB. Buy high proof alcohol, like everclear, and Buy some Propylene glycol.

C. Now you can either mix the powder with the alcohol PG mix, or with rogaine instead, instructions are available in the thread that I gave you, but you have to read the thread!

D. You have a treatment more effective than Finasteride without the side effects!

I deleted my entire previous response lol. I got mixed up with the description of RU and CB or is it CM? I''ll respond tomorrow, I'm not feeling too good.

Ill ask this though; can i begin finasteride, then change to RU and discontinue finasteride without losing everything I've maintained? It would surely keep my scalp reletively free from DHT and let me keep the hair i've maintained?

 

[moseymoose]

sorry that all sounds confusing, i have no idea what im talking about. my heads all over the place at the moment.

 

[mashang]

Dude the longer you research the less time you have to get something in your system to block the DHT ....

trust me... i wish i would have started treatments earlier
remember prevention is better an a Cure

get on some sort of regime be it finasteride or RU

 

[Wuffer]

Just to clarify things. The treatments Finfigher suggested are currently in trials and have not yet gone through FDA testing. In order to obtain these chemicals, you will need to purchase them from manufacturers (OC in Ontario), mix them with your own topical solution, then apply it to your head.

These chemicals are technically experimental, but it's shown they are probably completely safe with little to no side effects. Only one (RU) has been tested by a number of people and is shown to be effective. However, I personally haven't seen success pictures, but i'm sure there are some out there.

It's up to you if you want to take the time to try these out. I personally don't know much about RU, but most of the information you need is in finfighters thread.

If you don't want to take the time or trouble to do this, just start on Finasteride. You can always change your treatments later, or add topical treatments to your regime. A multi-faceted treatment involving Finasteride and an effective topical would probably be bulletproof. Depending on how effective the topicals are at blocking DHT, finasteride might not be needed at all, but I believe at least for RU, they would both compliment eachother.

 

[moseymoose]

Dude the longer you research the less time you have to get something in your system to block the DHT ....

trust me... i wish i would have started treatments earlier
remember prevention is better an a Cure

get on some sort of regime be it finasteride or RU

I will, side effects or no side effects it's better than the emotion and panic I seem to be going through about it all. I feel like a pregnant woman, I'm perfectly fine one minute then BANG I'm either completely distraught, in blind panic or totally confused.

I'm going to go ahead and get a perception for finasteride, and then continue this discussion about RU while I wait for my finasteride to arrive from lloyds pharmacy.