A little help would be appreciated...

[Buildin']

Hello all. I am 28 and I am definitely noticing some thinning in my hairline area. Not so much of anything in the back or the top, mainly the front. It is not obvious to everyone who looks at me, but it IS painfully obvious to me. I want something to stop the loss. I don't really care whether I regrow or not, because I haven't lost ALL that much...I do wish to keep what I have.

In your informed opinions, what is the better way to go? dutasteride, which seems to start working right off, or finasteride, which seems to take months to get rolling.

Also, I am a bit of a gym rat, and am actually looking to compete sometime down the road in bodybuilding...Will either of these treatments hurt me in the gym? Does anyone else here lift on either med? I want my hair, but I wanna be able to build muscle as well.....Damn, this sucks. Any answers would be appreciated....


"Buildin'"

 

[CousinIt]

Buildin...

Both will be effective from the onset on therapy, obviously dutasteride will be slightly more powerful.

Use of these drugs can be somewhat detrimental in achieving muscle and strength gains. Dihydrotestosterone is the most potent androgen found in the human body, three to four times stronger an agonist of the androgen receptor than testosterone, obviously the loss of a high percentage of this can ultimately impact muscle, strength and body fat.

 

[Goingat20]

i dont think that is true, ive been taking dutasteride for years and have continued to grow in muscle and strengh....

 

[Slartibartfast]

i dont think that is true, ive been taking dutasteride for years and have continued to grow in muscle and strengh....

Same here, I've been taking it daily for 2.5 years without any detrimental impact on muscle growth or levels of body fat.

 

[CousinIt]

You have misinterpreted my statement, I have not said gains will cease, only that the end results would not be equivalent had DHT not been suppressed. If you had not been on these drugs you would have reaped additional benefits from your efforts, this is fact. DHT has a significant impact on muscle, fat and neurological aspects.

 

[oni]

So CousinIt lets see the facts, spell it out for us.

 

[CousinIt]

Gladly.

DHT is known to interact with the central nervous system through neural receptors. The strong interaction between the central nervous system and skeletal muscles is of key importance, as these two areas interact to form what is referred to as the neuromuscular system. The ability of the body to adapt to training and better call upon nerve endings in muscle tissue is reliant on the functioning of the central nervous/neuromuscular system. Inhibiting the formation of DHT may therefore cause less to be achieved in terms of strength and muscle mass gains.


Androgens play important roles in mediating the disposition of body fat and lean muscle mass. Androgens are the primary hormones responsible for muscle growth, they also play a part in promoting fat loss. Results obtained during numerous androgen replacement studies for example strongly support a loss of body fat when androgen levels rise. The specific mechanism involved may be the support of catecholamine-induced lipolysis, caused by the androgen increasing the number of beta-adrenergic receptors on the membrane surface of fat cells. Studies also show that DHT acts as an anti-aromatase in the body, combating estrogenic action and supporting the desired state of metabolism, this is due to the fact of DHT having affinity to interact with the aromatase enzyme, yet due to its structure is incapable of being altered by it. As the enzyme's binding site is temporarily occupied by DHT, other substrates such as testosterone will not be able to bind to it, and an anti-aromatase effect is achieved.

In the human body only a very small percentage of testosterone is free at any given time to interact with cellular receptor sites. This is because the vast majority (98%) will form temporary complexes with the plasma binding proteins, SHBG, and albumin which prevent the hormone from exerting activity in the body. It is here that DHT differs from testosterone in important way, in that it binds several times more avidly to SHBG in comparison. . As the level of DHT rises in the body, so would the amount of free testosterone, as the former hormone will be out competing the latter for binding to SHGB. The greater the ratio of DHT to testosterone the better the effect achieved.


The formation of this hormone in the human body plays a crucial role in several areas, sexual functioning, maintenance and functioning of the central nervous system, and support of bone density and muscle mass. Not only does it allow testosterone to work more efficiently, but also diminishes estrogenic activity, all of which are highly advantageous to the strength athlete.

 

[H2O]

You have misinterpreted my statement, I have not said gains will cease, only that the end results would not be equivalent had DHT not been suppressed. If you had not been on these drugs you would have reaped additional benefits from your efforts, this is fact. DHT has a significant impact on muscle, fat and neurological aspects.

From my current understanding, I would disagree here to some extent. As far as muscle...overall serum Testosterone levels actually increase when on finasteride and dutasteride. I believe I've heard numbers in the range of 10-25% for finasteride and even higher on dutasteride. This increase in testosterone can only assist...not hinder...strength training.

Now the increase in free testosterone (resulting from the hindrance of the testosterone to DHT conversion) also, as it turns out, results in an increase in estrogen, another product generated in testosterone conversion by the body.

From my understanding estrogen can play a factor in body fat percentage as well as a host of other hormonal effects...I am not so sure the decrease in DHT offsets the increase in testosterone and I've heard anecdotal statements from others on this board confirming that fact. Then again I might be completely wrong here as I don't claim to understand the total effect DHT has on the muscle and neurological systems of the body...perhaps you can provide more details on this...I'd like to know...

 

[H2O]

Gladly.

DHT is known to interact with the central nervous system through neural receptors. The strong interaction between the central nervous system and skeletal muscles is of key importance, as these two areas interact to form what is referred to as the neuromuscular system. The ability of the body to adapt to training and better call upon nerve endings in muscle tissue is reliant on the functioning of the central nervous/neuromuscular system. Inhibiting the formation of DHT may therefore cause less to be achieved in terms of strength and muscle mass gains.


Androgens play important roles in mediating the disposition of body fat and lean muscle mass. Androgens are the primary hormones responsible for muscle growth, they also play a part in promoting fat loss. Results obtained during numerous androgen replacement studies for example strongly support a loss of body fat when androgen levels rise. The specific mechanism involved may be the support of catecholamine-induced lipolysis, caused by the androgen increasing the number of beta-adrenergic receptors on the membrane surface of fat cells. Studies also show that DHT acts as an anti-aromatase in the body, combating estrogenic action and supporting the desired state of metabolism, this is due to the fact of DHT having affinity to interact with the aromatase enzyme, yet due to its structure is incapable of being altered by it. As the enzyme's binding site is temporarily occupied by DHT, other substrates such as testosterone will not be able to bind to it, and an anti-aromatase effect is achieved.

In the human body only a very small percentage of testosterone is free at any given time to interact with cellular receptor sites. This is because the vast majority (98%) will form temporary complexes with the plasma binding proteins, SHBG, and albumin which prevent the hormone from exerting activity in the body. It is here that DHT differs from testosterone in important way, in that it binds several times more avidly to SHBG in comparison. . As the level of DHT rises in the body, so would the amount of free testosterone, as the former hormone will be out competing the latter for binding to SHGB. The greater the ratio of DHT to testosterone the better the effect achieved.


The formation of this hormone in the human body plays a crucial role in several areas, sexual functioning, maintenance and functioning of the central nervous system, and support of bone density and muscle mass. Not only does it allow testosterone to work more efficiently, but also diminishes estrogenic activity, all of which are highly advantageous to the strength athlete.

Hummm...thanks this explains a lot. But it is interesting to me that much of what you describe (at least symptomatology) is reduced by also partially inhibiting the Test to Estrogen conversion. It seems that estrogen increase manifests more of the physiological effects described here and when this increase is addressed more "normal" functioning is achieved with regard to muscle strength and body-fat percentage. Would you not agree or am I off base here?

 

[CousinIt]

From my current understanding, I would disagree here to some extent. As far as muscle...overall serum Testosterone levels actually increase when on finasteride and dutasteride. I believe I've heard numbers in the range of 10-25% for finasteride and even higher on dutasteride. This increase in testosterone can only assist...not hinder...strength training

True, but this does not offset the loss of DHT, specifically the effects of DHT on the central nervous system, which leads to increased neurological efficiency (strength), and increased resistance to psychological and physical stress (recuperation). As hard as one works out, it is during this phase that muscular atrophy occurs, if one fails to fully recuperate then results will be less than optimal and signs of overtraining in time will become evident.

But it is interesting to me that much of what you describe (at least symptomatology) is reduced by also partially inhibiting the Test to Estrogen conversion. It seems that estrogen increase manifests more of the physiological effects described here and when this increase is addressed more "normal" functioning is achieved with regard to muscle strength and body-fat percentage.

Yes, but this is only part of the puzzle as previously mentioned.