2% Of 40 Million Users Is A Lot Of People

[spooon]

It occurred to me that Merck's claim that only 2% of propecia users suffer side effects means that approx 800,000 are suffering. I base this on 40 million users , a number i was given by a well known hair surgeon. That's a lot of people, easily enough to flood every internet forum on hair loss and then some. Thoughts? I'm trying to talk myself into taking this drug.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

It occurred to me that Merck's claim that only 2% of propecia users suffer side effects means that approx 800,000 are suffering. I base this on 40 million users , a number i was given by a well known hair surgeon. That's a lot of people, easily enough to flood every internet forum on hair loss and then some. Thoughts? I'm trying to talk myself into taking this drug.

Unfortunately the research is mediocre.

However, what's clear from Internet forums is that many people don't get measurable sides, and that among those who do get sides recovery is possible but takes a few months.

If you still have decent hair left, as in you're not totally bald, then this is arguably the best available drug for you.

 

[spooon]

i think i would struggle with the fear that ability / speed to recover deteriorates the longer one takes it. i'm all for taking a risk but with this drug one is never out of the woods it seems

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

People get out of the woods.

 

[INT]

with this drug one is never out of the woods it seems

Well this drug made me without morning wood... Even 1,5 year after quiting...

Btw, 40 mil people in finasteride? Link?

 

[spooon]

Well this drug made me without morning wood... Even 1,5 year after quiting...

Btw, 40 mil people in finasteride? Link?

is that so bad in itself?

the 40 million figure was given to me by a FUE surgeon

 

[N003]

It's never 40 million men who use finasteride.

Maybe a couple of 100'000 men

It is certainly much more than 2 % of the side effects!

There are studies that say up to every 2 men, independent studies that have no relation to Merck!!!

DHT is the strongest anabolic hormone. It is very important for libido, it has a connection with the prostate.

Besides the brain, the prostate is the most important organ for libido, sexual arousal and penis strength.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle/2212246

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Well this drug made me without morning wood... Even 1,5 year after quiting...

Btw, 40 mil people in finasteride? Link?

A few months to recover if you actually try and recover using widely known recovery protocols. Otherwise it could take 5 or more years.

Lookup CDnuts protocol. Might be spelled CDSnuts.

 

[Bigbone]

It's never 40 million men who use finasteride.

Maybe a couple of 100'000 men

It is certainly much more than 2 % of the side effects!

There are studies that say up to every 2 men, independent studies that have no relation to Merck!!!

DHT is the strongest anabolic hormone. It is very important for libido, it has a connection with the prostate.

Besides the brain, the prostate is the most important organ for libido, sexual arousal and penis strength.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamadermatology/fullarticle/2212246

Yea, no way there are 40 million users lol.

 

[INT]

A few months to recover if you actually try and recover using widely known recovery protocols. Otherwise it could take 5 or more years.

Lookup CDnuts protocol. Might be spelled CDSnuts.

Brother I am on the CDnuts protocol for many months now (minus the water/juice fast which I cannot do for health reasons) and yes I have definitely made improvements but it is not a cure (for me yet) and I had to sacrifice a lot... Definitely not worth it for 8 months of finasteride (which did not even do anything for my hair anyway in those months).

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Brother I am on the CDnuts protocol for many months now (minus the water/juice fast which I cannot do for health reasons) and yes I have definitely made improvements but it is not a cure (for me yet) and I had to sacrifice a lot... Definitely not worth it for 8 months of finasteride (which did not even do anything for my hair anyway in those months).

You removed the most important part and you're wondering why it doesn't work.

 

[INT]

You removed the most important part and you're wondering why it doesn't work.

Did I say it doesn't work? I really thought I said I made improvements but that is not a cure for me yet...;-)

I tried the juice fast for 5 days but after fainting after getting up out of bed and hitting my head pretty bad I figured it was maybe best to stop and just focus extra on the other aspects of the protocol.

Second, where is your source that this is the most important component of the protocol? (legit question btw, I just never read this and I am on Swolesource pretty much on a daily base). I know that this is not what you said but just because I removed 1 component (for good reasons) from a protocol with many components does not imply that if I would have included that component that I would have been cured now. Especially of you take into account the lack of real research on the health benefits of these fasts/cleanses.

 

[spooon]

the thought of complex protocols to recover from hair saving protocols is f*****g scary!

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Did I say it doesn't work? I really thought I said I made improvements but that is not a cure for me yet...;-)

I tried the juice fast for 5 days but after fainting after getting up out of bed and hitting my head pretty bad I figured it was maybe best to stop and just focus extra on the other aspects of the protocol.

Second, where is your source that this is the most important component of the protocol? (legit question btw, I just never read this and I am on Swolesource pretty much on a daily base). I know that this is not what you said but just because I removed 1 component (for good reasons) from a protocol with many components does not imply that if I would have included that component that I would have been cured now. Especially of you take into account the lack of real research on the health benefits of these fasts/cleanses.

I have significant knowledge of fasting for issues such as diabetes, auto-immune disorders, etc. I regularly read blogs and academic papers on the issue so it makes sense to me that this would be significant as it sets off an avalanche of cleansing processes:

- It temporarily shifts a lot of your hormones during the fast. Insulin, glucagon, SHBG, etc etc.
- It purges fat cells and in particular it purges organ fats more effectively. It's widely recognized in medicine that organ fat is worse for you than subcutaneous fat, so purging that more efficiently will yield you long-term hormonal advantages that last after the fast.
- Separately a lot of toxins are stored in fat cells, so getting rid of them is good for you.
- It reduces inflammation. Mine dropped by over 80%.
- Once that's done, your body is leaner, it doesn't have as much aromatase and other bullshit flowing around, you're in much better condition for the following regimen.
- It helps heal the brain. The brain does different things on ketones than on glucose, and for that you have to wait at least three days. We know that ketosis cures epilepsy -- the Romans knew that. It also seems very successful in combatting depression.
- It stimulates autophagy which begins 18 hours into a fast, a real fast not a fake juice fast. Autophagy is the process whereby your worst cells and worst mitochondria are preferentially catabolized.
- It decreases microbial load in the digestive tract, which helps heal your microbiome.

The fact that you fainted on day five means that you didn't know what you were doing. I have done many fasts, including multiple 7-day fasts and have never fainted. Try doing a proper calorie-free fast rather than a juice fast, so that you actually get ketosis, abdominal fat reduction, and autophagy. You can supplement with salt (1 teaspoon a day) to decrease the risk of fainting. In the first couple days, add a few tablespoons of coconut oil to help smooth the transition.

Here's a decent documentary that you can watch:
http://fastingmovie.com

For motivation look up interviews with Doctors Alan Goldhamer, Valter Longo, and Jason Fung who are experts on fasting.

 

[spooon]

I have significant knowledge of fasting for issues such as diabetes, auto-immune disorders, etc. I regularly read blogs and academic papers on the issue so it makes sense to me that this would be significant as it sets off an avalanche of cleansing processes:

- It temporarily shifts a lot of your hormones during the fast. Insulin, glucagon, SHBG, etc etc.
- It purges fat cells and in particular it purges organ fats more effectively. It's widely recognized in medicine that organ fat is worse for you than subcutaneous fat, so purging that more efficiently will yield you long-term hormonal advantages that last after the fast.
- Separately a lot of toxins are stored in fat cells, so getting rid of them is good for you.
- It reduces inflammation. Mine dropped by over 80%.
- Once that's done, your body is leaner, it doesn't have as much aromatase and other bullshit flowing around, you're in much better condition for the following regimen.
- It helps heal the brain. The brain does different things on ketones than on glucose, and for that you have to wait at least three days. We know that ketosis cures epilepsy -- the Romans knew that. It also seems very successful in combatting depression.
- It stimulates autophagy which begins 18 hours into a fast, a real fast not a fake juice fast. Autophagy is the process whereby your worst cells and worst mitochondria are preferentially catabolized.
- It decreases microbial load in the digestive tract, which helps heal your microbiome.

The fact that you fainted on day five means that you didn't know what you were doing. I have done many fasts, including multiple 7-day fasts and have never fainted. Try doing a proper calorie-free fast rather than a juice fast, so that you actually get ketosis, abdominal fat reduction, and autophagy. You can supplement with salt (1 teaspoon a day) to decrease the risk of fainting. In the first couple days, add a few tablespoons of coconut oil to help smooth the transition.

Here's a decent documentary that you can watch:
http://fastingmovie.com

For motivation look up interviews with Doctors Alan Goldhamer, Valter Longo, and Jason Fung who are experts on fasting.

Wow. I've never even taken finasteride but am interested in this protocol just for the health benefits. Where do i look it up?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Wow. I've never even taken finasteride but am interested in this protocol just for the health benefits. Where do i look it up?

I gave some suggestions at the bottom on fasting alone.

Here's my science of intermittent fasting thread:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/the-science-of-intermittent-fasting.98461/

You can look up CDnuts protocol online, at swole source, etc. Fasting is the first step in this regimen, followed by other lifestyle changes and supplements.

 

[INT]

I have significant knowledge of fasting for issues such as diabetes, auto-immune disorders, etc. I regularly read blogs and academic papers on the issue so it makes sense to me that this would be significant as it sets off an avalanche of cleansing processes:

- It temporarily shifts a lot of your hormones during the fast. Insulin, glucagon, SHBG, etc etc.
- It purges fat cells and in particular it purges organ fats more effectively. It's widely recognized in medicine that organ fat is worse for you than subcutaneous fat, so purging that more efficiently will yield you long-term hormonal advantages that last after the fast.
- Separately a lot of toxins are stored in fat cells, so getting rid of them is good for you.
- It reduces inflammation. Mine dropped by over 80%.
- Once that's done, your body is leaner, it doesn't have as much aromatase and other bullshit flowing around, you're in much better condition for the following regimen.
- It helps heal the brain. The brain does different things on ketones than on glucose, and for that you have to wait at least three days. We know that ketosis cures epilepsy -- the Romans knew that. It also seems very successful in combatting depression.
- It stimulates autophagy which begins 18 hours into a fast, a real fast not a fake juice fast. Autophagy is the process whereby your worst cells and worst mitochondria are preferentially catabolized.
- It decreases microbial load in the digestive tract, which helps heal your microbiome.

The fact that you fainted on day five means that you didn't know what you were doing. I have done many fasts, including multiple 7-day fasts and have never fainted. Try doing a proper calorie-free fast rather than a juice fast, so that you actually get ketosis, abdominal fat reduction, and autophagy. You can supplement with salt (1 teaspoon a day) to decrease the risk of fainting. In the first couple days, add a few tablespoons of coconut oil to help smooth the transition.

Here's a decent documentary that you can watch:
http://fastingmovie.com

For motivation look up interviews with Doctors Alan Goldhamer, Valter Longo, and Jason Fung who are experts on fasting.

Great post! Thanks for the input, I will definitely look into it.

Now here is the thing, I have an extremely high metabolism. I need to continue eating very high levels of kcals just to maintain body weight. I am already quite lean. At the moment I have only 12% body fat. My blood preasure is also slightly below average. The combination of both things could attribute to my fainting.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Great post! Thanks for the input, I will definitely look into it.

Now here is the thing, I have an extremely high metabolism. I need to continue eating very high levels of kcals just to maintain body weight. I am already quite lean. At the moment I have only 12% body fat. My blood preasure is also slightly below average. The combination of both things could attribute to my fainting.

You could always pig out for a couple weeks prior to fasting lol.

Realistically I wouldn't go below 8%. So if you're at 12%, that means that the longest that you can fast for right now is 7-10 days, perhaps a little more if you eat a lot in the next two or three weeks.

For the fainting, supplement salt, coconut oil, and possibly bone broth and chia seed pudding in the first few days of the fast, then switch to just salt by the 3rd or 4th day. One or two teaspoons a day of salt a day. Dissolve in water. Tastes like sh*t but it will help.

Chia seed pudding: 0.5 cups of chia seeds, 2 cups of unsweetened coconut milk, cinnamon, maybe a teaspoon of vanilla extract, maybe 1/4 cup of cocoa powder, maybe a tiny bit of stevia. Mix in a bowl. Refrigerate. Remix thirty minutes later. Check thirty minutes after and you should have several servings.

 

[INT]

You could always pig out for a couple weeks prior to fasting lol.

Realistically I wouldn't go below 8%. So if you're at 12%, that means that the longest that you can fast for right now is 7-10 days, perhaps a little more if you eat a lot in the next two or three weeks.

For the fainting, supplement salt, coconut oil, and possibly bone broth and chia seed pudding in the first few days of the fast, then switch to just salt by the 3rd or 4th day. One or two teaspoons a day of salt a day. Dissolve in water. Tastes like sh*t but it will help.

Chia seed pudding: 0.5 cups of chia seeds, 2 cups of unsweetened coconut milk, cinnamon, maybe a teaspoon of vanilla extract, maybe 1/4 cup of cocoa powder, maybe a tiny bit of stevia. Mix in a bowl. Refrigerate. Remix thirty minutes later. Check thirty minutes after and you should have several servings.

Thanks dude!