What will happen if I become resistant to both finasteride and dutasteride?

[RP]

I have been thinking about the fact that finasteride tends to lose its effectiveness in approximately five years. And if you change to dutasteride after that, you might become resistent to it also after a couple of years.

The reason why I`m concerned about this is the fact that both these drugs were made to treat enlarged prostates (which may lead to prostate cancer) in the first place.

Just like male pattern baldness, prostate cancer is something that is highly dependant on your genes. Both my grandfather and father have had this problem. My father took dutasteride for four years before his condition worsened into prostate cancer. The cancer was succesfully removed, but dutasteride did help him as it postponed his situation from developing into cancer earlier.

It would be a tricky situation for someone who starts to suffer from an enlarged prostate and has become resistent to two of the most effective drugs to treat it.

 

[docj077]

There is a difference between a cancer cell becoming resistant to a drug by modifying it or pumping it out of cancer cells and your male pattern baldness simply progressing to a stage where a drug becomes ineffective.

A rather large difference exists between the two and they are both based on entirely different physiological mechanisms.

 

[MPBWarrior]

that's right, these drugs never lose their effectiveness. what happens is that your male pattern baldness becomes too severe that not even these medications can help, but they certainly don't inhibit less DHT with time. my only concern with u is your family history with prostate cancer. there was a study done with finasteride which showed that it decreased the number of men getting prostate cancer on the drug as opposed to not being on the drug, but a bigger percentage of higher and more dangerous type tumours with the ones on the drug. therefore since u are more likely to have prostate cancer (because of your family history-im not saying u will get it by the way), u are also more likely to have a higher grade tumour, even if that percentage is very small. probably being very cautious here but u should have all the information available to u.

 

[RP]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have just thought that these kind of questions are something that especially people switching from finasteride to dutasteride should take into cosideration. I`m not planning to do that since finasteride seems to be working well. Hopefully if it works for me 5-7 years by that time there is a completely new treatment available.

Even though dutasteride didnt`t prevent my dads cancer it did help his hairloss. He`s maybe a nw4 at this moment, but he has lost his hair quite rapidly after he stopped taking dutasteride (not that it matters him, but just a notice I have done).

 

[Guest]

that's right, these drugs never lose their effectiveness. what happens is that your male pattern baldness becomes too severe that not even these medications can help, but they certainly don't inhibit less DHT with time. my only concern with u is your family history with prostate cancer. there was a study done with finasteride which showed that it decreased the number of men getting prostate cancer on the drug as opposed to not being on the drug, but a bigger percentage of higher and more dangerous type tumours with the ones on the drug. therefore since u are more likely to have prostate cancer (because of your family history-im not saying u will get it by the way), u are also more likely to have a higher grade tumour, even if that percentage is very small. probably being very cautious here but u should have all the information available to u.

link that study. only one showed that, and there's a healthy amount of skepticism about it as well.

 

[Bryan]

Re: What will happen if I become resistant to both finasteride and d

I have been thinking about the fact that finasteride tends to lose its effectiveness in approximately five years.

I hope you're aware that the difference in haircounts between finasteride users and non-finasteride users continues to INCREASE over 5 years, it doesn't DECREASE. What that means is that even though haircounts slowly decline after the 1-year peak, the drug is still slowing the progression of male pattern baldness, even after 5 years.

The reason why I`m concerned about this is the fact that both these drugs were made to treat enlarged prostates (which may lead to prostate cancer) in the first place.

Merck created finasteride with the hope of possibly using it for a variety of androgen-related medical problems, not just enlarged prostates.

Just like male pattern baldness, prostate cancer is something that is highly dependant on your genes. Both my grandfather and father have had this problem. My father took dutasteride for four years before his condition worsened into prostate cancer. The cancer was succesfully removed, but dutasteride did help him as it postponed his situation from developing into cancer earlier.

How do you know that? My fear is that it might actually have hastened the development of his cancer, or perhaps made it into a more aggressive form, although that's still a controversial issue.

It would be a tricky situation for someone who starts to suffer from an enlarged prostate and has become resistent to two of the most effective drugs to treat it.

The moral to that story may be to start taking those drugs as early as possible, well before symptoms first appear. The earlier you start, the less likely you are ever to have the problem in the first place (assuming that you continue to take them the rest of your life).

Bryan

 

[Guest]

Re: What will happen if I become resistant to both finasteride and d

[

I hope you're aware that the difference in haircounts between finasteride users and non-finasteride users continues to INCREASE over 5 years, it doesn't DECREASE. What that means is that even though haircounts slowly decline after the 1-year peak, the drug is still slowing the progression of male pattern baldness, even after 5 years.

Hey Bryan, is there a chart that shows this? I know I've seen the 5 yr study which showed the difference increasing from YR1 to YR5, but are we just to assume that the difference keeps getting larger and larger from year to year?

 

[bubka]

that's right, these drugs never lose their effectiveness. what happens is that your male pattern baldness becomes too severe that not even these medications can help, but they certainly don't inhibit less DHT with time. my only concern with u is your family history with prostate cancer. there was a study done with finasteride which showed that it decreased the number of men getting prostate cancer on the drug as opposed to not being on the drug, but a bigger percentage of higher and more dangerous type tumours with the ones on the drug. therefore since u are more likely to have prostate cancer (because of your family history-im not saying u will get it by the way), u are also more likely to have a higher grade tumour, even if that percentage is very small. probably being very cautious here but u should have all the information available to u.

link that study. only one showed that, and there's a healthy amount of skepticism about it as well.

that study was hardly significant, and was shown the opposite by another

 

[Bryan]

Hey Bryan, is there a chart that shows this? I know I've seen the 5 yr study which showed the difference increasing from YR1 to YR5, but are we just to assume that the difference keeps getting larger and larger from year to year?

I think it's a fairly safe assumption, don't you? The downward slope of the non-finasteride group is certainly steeper than that of the finasteride group during those first 5 years. I can't imagine that things could change so dramatically from 6 years onward! :wink:

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

that study was hardly significant, and was shown the opposite by another

You're claiming that the PCPT was insignificant?! HUH?????

Bryan

 

[bubka]

yeah, we fought over this for about 3 pages last time

 

[RP]

How do you know that? My fear is that it might actually have hastened the development of his cancer, or perhaps made it into a more aggressive form, although that's still a controversial issue.

That is impossible for me to tell since I`m not a medical professional myself (it doesn`t count that when I served in the army I was a medic seargent for a year). :shock: .

Since he was in group that was considered "high risk" his development was monitored very well and the cancer recognized in an early stage.

The moral to that story may be to start taking those drugs as early as possible, well before symptoms first appear. The earlier you start, the less likely you are ever to have the problem in the first place

That is exactly what I had in mind when I started finasteride. Even though it most likely (if ever) wont be a problem for at least 20 years.

 

[docj077]

For those people who were a part of those propecia and prostate cancer studies, I would seriously doubt the compliance of those individuals that developed any form of cancer. I would also want to know if they've ever had prostatitis at any point in their lives, what was used to treat it, and how long they suffered from the inflammation.

There are too many variables here that could demonstrate that hormonal fluctuations may have occurred in these individuals and that they could merely have exacerbated an already progressive disease process by the time they began taking propecia.

Low DHT production due to propecia consumption does not correlate with inhibited prostate growth. The cells will produce more androgen receptors to make up the difference and produce more DHT locally by whatever means they can so as to overwhelm the effects that propecia has on those tissues in genetically susceptible individuals.

Cancer is a very smart disease and it does whatever it takes to survive.