Watery semen....

[barcafan]

Does anyone know the direct cause of it? I've been getting it and still do (along with other things), permanently even after 18 months of discontinuation of finasteride.

 

[optimus prime]

Gone yet?

 

[Fanjeera]

Noone knows the exact mechanism. Is it pituitary malfunction or a failure in testicles?
The direct cause of this is that you're infertile and finasteride made it so. We won't get any further in this, because the medicine is not up to researching the topic.

 

[Mew]

Does anyone know the direct cause of it?

finasteride is a 5AR2 inhibitor and causes Prostatic atrophy and involution (loss of function) via apoptosis (cell death). The prostate secrets the majority of seminal fluid found in ejaculate.

In other words, your prostate size, seminal fluid production and function was destroyed by Finasteride... so, sounds like it has yet to recover.

 

[Nene]

Does anyone know the direct cause of it?

finasteride is a 5AR2 inhibitor and causes Prostatic atrophy and involution (loss of function) via apoptosis (cell death). The prostate secrets the majority of seminal fluid found in ejaculate.

In other words, your prostate size, seminal fluid production and function was destroyed by Finasteride... so, sounds like it has yet to recover.

Mew. I always think back to the studies I've read about, about the pseudo hermaphrodites in the Dominican Republic and how they produced 0 DHT. Why is it that finasteride is so destructive to the prostate and seminal quality while only blocking some DHT, while other men don't suffer this and have 0 DHT? Just a question, I'm not looking to pick a fight.

 

[timbo]

Does anyone know the direct cause of it?

finasteride is a 5AR2 inhibitor and causes Prostatic atrophy and involution (loss of function) via apoptosis (cell death). The prostate secrets the majority of seminal fluid found in ejaculate.

In other words, your prostate size, seminal fluid production and function was destroyed by Finasteride... so, sounds like it has yet to recover.

Mew. I always think back to the studies I've read about, about the pseudo hermaphrodites in the Dominican Republic and how they produced 0 DHT. Why is it that finasteride is so destructive to the prostate and seminal quality while only blocking some DHT, while other men don't suffer this and have 0 DHT? Just a question, I'm not looking to pick a fight.

Excellent point, although the pseudo hermaphrodites are only deficient in the type 2 enzyme, much like finasteride users.

 

[Mew]

Why is it that finasteride is so destructive to the prostate and seminal quality while only blocking some DHT, while other men don't suffer this and have 0 DHT?

The pseudos never develop a proper sized/functioning prostate due to absence of 5AR2 enzyme.

By taking Finasteride, you transform your hormonal profile in adulthood to match that of a 5AR2-deficient pseudohermaphrodite, and many associated effects associated with that syndrome -- such as atrophy of the 5AR2-dependant prostate in the normal adult male, and reduced semen volume, altered viscosity and lowered ejaculatory force.

Male pseudohermaphroditism due to steroid 5-alpha-reductase deficiency.
[My paper] R E Peterson, J Imperato-McGinley, T Gautier, E Sturla
http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:835597

"They have decreased body hair, a scant to absent beard, no temporal hair line recession and a small prostate. "

----

Androgens and male physiology the syndrome of 5alpha-reductase-2 deficiency.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 6b1ad78ed0
[My paper] J Imperato-McGinley, Y-S Zhu

"The prostate in adulthood is small and rudimentary, and facial and body hair is absent or decreased. Balding has not been reported. Spermatogenesis is normal if the testes are descended."

----
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/336/14/994
"Male pseudohermaphrodites with 5-reductase-2 deficiency, despite the severe ambiguity of the genitalia at birth, undergo a male puberty. Among those raised as females, many later choose to live as men.1,3,4,5,6,7 The achievement of biologic fatherhood by intrauterine insemination with sperm from our subject demonstrates that this facet of male reproductive function is possible in men with this genetic disorder. Most men with a 5-reductase-2 deficiency are, however, infertile19 due to a number of factors. Many have azoospermia or oligospermia associated with undescended testes.8,19 In addition, perineoscrotal hypospadias or complications of genitourinary surgery such as urethroscrotal fistulas, which occurred in this man, can interfere with insemination.4,5,8 Even in affected men with adequate spermatogenesis who have undergone surgical correction of the genitalia, the characteristic very low semen volume and increased viscosity can preclude natural insemination. "

Normal men who do not have 5AR2 defieciency develop a normal sized and functional prostate, and all related ducts and tissues which enables the prostate to secrete adequate seminal fluid, amongst many other sexually-related functions.

Since Finasteride instills a surrogate state of 5AR2 defiency via inhibition of 5AR2/DHT, it will atrophy your prostate and you can (likely WILL) suffer from decreased ejaculatory function as a result... amongst other issues.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Nene]

I think it answers my question. So according to the highlighted text, the pseduo hermaphrodites did suffer these side effects similar to what finasteride users experience. Finasteride doesn't block 100% of DHT I'm pretty sure I've read so shouldn't the negative effects be somewhat less severe? I haven't heard too much about about men becoming sterile while on finasteride, but based on that study seems like it should be much more frequent. Would the prostate return to a normal size after DHT is no longer blocked?

 

[Mew]

Finasteride doesn't block 100% of DHT I'm pretty sure I've read so shouldn't the negative effects be somewhat less severe?

That's a subjective question -- depends what you mean by "less severe?

The pseudos were hardwired and born with a deficient 5AR2 enzyme, they never knew any different. Taking a normal man who IS accustomed to functining normally, and essentially removing 5AR2/70% of DHT from his body via Finasteride, can cause negative unwanted side effects as a result... because those tissues, functions and organs that depend on 5AR2/DHT all of a sudden have it deprived via finasteride. For the normal male, such side effects would likely qualify as "severe" in nature, but it all depends how much one is willing to put up with.

In either case, 5AR1 does contribute ~ 30% of DHT for both pseudohermaphrodites and finasteride users, but again, the pseudos never knew any different in terms of prostate function, orgasms, erections, semen volume etc because they were born with the deficiency and for all intents and purposes likely considered their "condition" normal for them. That's a far cry from taking a normal 25 year old male who is used to blowing big loads, getting hard at drop of a hat, constantly horny... and then removing those qualities via DHT deprivation due to finasteride. For most normal men, I'd bet the loss of those functions would count as pretty "severe", but it also depends how much one is willing to put up with in terms of side effects/quality of life.

Would the prostate return to a normal size after DHT is no longer blocked?

You'd hope so, but there are no guarantees that involuted tissue regain their former function.

This study in rats shows Testosterone/DHT administration was able to induce some regrowth of the prostate after castration and 5AR2 inhibition with Finasteride:

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprin ... 0/4509.pdf

Wether it functions "normally" again, however, is another question.
The attached screenshot from http://books.google.ca/books?id=ODBLQc2 ... #PPA162,M1 should provide additional insights into what Finasteride does to your prostate when you take it. Note the arrow at the bottom.

 

[Nene]

I'd have to disagree that the side-effects are subjective. Just because the pseudo hermaphrodites were used to their situation doesn't make them any less real or less severe. I'm talking about real quantifiable side effects like ability to achieve an erection or semen quality and sperm mobility etc, Anyway, thanks for your replies. I know you're a big critic of finasteride and I like to hear both sides of the argument.

 

[Axl_Rose]

My Jizz was watery but now it's back to normal, one odd thing i did notice and I'm sure Mew will explain it for me, is that during my propecia off time, like during the first few days of not being on the drug i was having dream after dream, while on finasteride i wouldn't have many dreams, but after stopping it for a while it was like my mind went off it's tits and hit me with all these fluid dreams.

It was weird but felt good.

 

[Fanjeera]

My Jizz was watery but now it's back to normal, one odd thing i did notice and I'm sure Mew will explain it for me, is that during my propecia off time, like during the first few days of not being on the drug i was having dream after dream, while on finasteride i wouldn't have many dreams, but after stopping it for a while it was like my mind went off it's tits and hit me with all these fluid dreams.

It was weird but felt good.

You quit finasteride and became 100% back normal? Actually, my doctor showed me some studies that proved that the sperm could recover, but it was a very long process.
You start dreaming again because you get allopregnanolone back in your system. Finasteride doesn't let it be synthesized. That simple.

 

[Fanjeera]

Finasteride doesn't block 100% of DHT I'm pretty sure I've read so shouldn't the negative effects be somewhat less severe?

That's a subjective question -- depends what you mean by "less severe?

The pseudos were hardwired and born with a deficient 5AR2 enzyme, they never knew any different. Taking a normal man who IS accustomed to functining normally, and essentially removing 5AR2/70% of DHT from his body via Finasteride, can cause negative unwanted side effects as a result... because those tissues, functions and organs that depend on 5AR2/DHT all of a sudden have it deprived via finasteride. For the normal male, such side effects would likely qualify as "severe" in nature, but it all depends how much one is willing to put up with.

In either case, 5AR1 does contribute ~ 30% of DHT for both pseudohermaphrodites and finasteride users, but again, the pseudos never knew any different in terms of prostate function, orgasms, erections, semen volume etc because they were born with the deficiency and for all intents and purposes likely considered their "condition" normal for them. That's a far cry from taking a normal 25 year old male who is used to blowing big loads, getting hard at drop of a hat, constantly horny... and then removing those qualities via DHT deprivation due to finasteride. For most normal men, I'd bet the loss of those functions would count as pretty "severe", but it also depends how much one is willing to put up with in terms of side effects/quality of life.



[quote:3lvq61wm]Would the prostate return to a normal size after DHT is no longer blocked?

You'd hope so, but there are no guarantees that involuted tissue regain their former function.

This study in rats shows Testosterone/DHT administration was able to induce some regrowth of the prostate after castration and 5AR2 inhibition with Finasteride:

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprin ... 0/4509.pdf

Wether it functions "normally" again, however, is another question.
The attached screenshot from http://books.google.ca/books?id=ODBLQc2 ... #PPA162,M1 should provide additional insights into what Finasteride does to your prostate when you take it. Note the arrow at the bottom.[/quote:3lvq61wm]I don't understand the IGF stuff there. Does finasteride lower the growth hormone by affecting the pituitary? Can this still mean hypopituitarism?

 

[Axl_Rose]

You quit finasteride and became 100% back normal?

Yeah as I'm sure a lot of people do.

 

[barcafan]

holy sh*t, mad bumped thread.

My jizz is getting better now though, its still not as thick as it was per say, about 60-70% now though, thankfully.

 

[optimus prime]

holy sh*t, mad bumped thread.

My jizz is getting better now though, its still not as thick as it was per say, about 60-70% now though, thankfully.

Nice one! Good to hear.

 

[Fanjeera]

My doctor told me it was 84 weeks needed for the recovery of semen. Hopefully I'll get better too.

 

[optimus prime]

My doctor told me it was 84 weeks needed for the recovery of semen. Hopefully I'll get better too.

You will. The human body is very resilient and great at healing. You give it what it needs (healthy diet/exercise) and your body will flourish. My advice is forget about the whole experience, you are still young, enjoy life, live very healthy and exercise very well. Don't think about your sperm count, watery semen or any other side effect.

There is a very very high chance that one day you will be pleasantly surprised.