Using retin-a without minoxidil

[Felk]

I noticed that Dr Lee sells 0.025% retinoic acid (the strength usually used in hairloss i believe) at 10$ for 60ml. Thats only 5$ a month if you apply 1ml a day. I know there are studies on Retin-A alone being beneficial for hairloss, so is anyone doing this?

Also, is Dr Lee's retinoic acid a liquid? With longer hair, creams... urgh! They are the bane of my existence...

 

[ShedMaster]

I thought the acid was simply to aid absorbtion of topicals such as minoxidil? Maybe someone else can add to this though..

 

[Felk]

It is, primarily. 5% Minoxidil with retin-a once a day, according to one study, is equivalent to 5% minoxidil twice a day.

But there have been studies on retin-a alone being beneficial for hair loss. I remember one woman had something along the lines of a 500% increase in haircount from retin-a.

But if it just helps with absorption of other topicals, ill use it for $5 a month. If it's a liquid, i'm going to use it Better get some sort of scalp sunscreen though....

 

[techprof]

felk, it is a liquid. (I still have a bottle in my home). Its base is alcohol
(there is a predictable vehicle and % content for each ingredient) in all of Dr. Lee's topicals.

Be careful while using it though. I seem to get skin irritation and breakage from it.
As Bryan suggested somewhere else use it two or 3 times a week.

 

[Felk]

Thanks for the reply tech, do you use the .050% or the .025%?

I think ill get some sort of scalp sunscreen. Or at least some hair treatment with some sort of UV protection. Any suggestions?

 

[Bryan]

I thought the acid was simply to aid absorbtion of topicals such as minoxidil? Maybe someone else can add to this though..

J Am Acad Dermatol. 1986 Oct;15(4 Pt 2):880-3, 890-3.

"Topical tretinoin for hair growth promotion" Bazzano GS, Terezakis N, Galen W.

Topical all-trans-retinoic acid (tretinoin) alone and in combination with 0.5% minoxidil has been tested for the promotion of hair growth in 56 subjects with androgenetic alopecia. After 1 year, the combination of topical tretinoin with 0.5% minoxidil resulted in terminal hair regrowth in 66% of the subjects studied. Tretinoin was shown to stimulate some hair regrowth in approximately 58% of the subjects studied. One female subject with pronounced alopecia for more than 20 years had regrowth of hair using only tretinoin for a period of 18 months. Tretinoin has been shown to promote and regulate cell proliferation and differentiation in the epithelium and may promote vascular proliferation. These factors are important for hair growth promotion. These preliminary results indicate that more work should be done on the role of retinoids in hair growth. The synergistic effect of retinoids in combination with a low concentration of minoxidil should also be further investigated.

 

[Felk]

Aaah yes, that's one of the studies I've seen once Bryan. However it doesn't say what percentage of tretinoin - though one usually uses the .025%, i believe. Do you agree with Techprof when he says only use it a few times per week?

Well if you are doing this, it would be closer to $2-3 a month. And with 58% of people showing hair growth (even though representative sample was relatively small, and the degree of hair growth isn't specified), it's very surprising that more people aren't using retin-a.

"These preliminary results indicate that more work should be done on the role of retinoids in hair growth." The article was dated 1986, so 20 years ago, was more work ever done?

 

[Felk]

This one is dated 1988:

" * Terezakis NK,
* Bazzano GS.

Dermatology Research Foundation, Los Angeles, California.

Although the mechanisms of follicular regression in androgenetic alopecia are not fully understood, retinoids may be important in changing the status of regressing follicles. There are many reports documenting reversal of epithelial dysplastic changes with retinoids. Although none of the studies with retinoids have concentrated on the precise mechanisms of follicular growth (regression or regeneration), these limited observations, and our early studies suggest that further work should be done on the effect retinoids have on the hair follicle during the various growth and regression phases of the follicular life cycle in humans. We propose that certain retinoids increase the rate of hair growth, prolong the anagen phase of the hair cycle, play a role in converting vellus to terminal hairs, and act synergistically with minoxidil to produce more dense hair regrowth from regressing follicles than either compound alone. Larger controlled studies and better methods for assessing hair growth are necessary to support these early results. Other retinoids as well as certain minoxidil analogs should also be studied.

PMID: 3063367 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

 

[CCS]

OK, that has me a bit interested. Did they just say they might prolong the anagen phase, or did "reversal of epithelial dysplastic changes" refer to tissue repair and rejuvenation? i would definitely use a low enough dose not to burn myself, and probably buy the 0.025% stuff and dilute it some more before application and use the diluted stuff every other day. I think about buying it after someone interprets that quote and guesses at its validity.

 

[Felk]

I think they were speculating that it did prolong the anagen phase, as their study supported this hypothesis. However, both these studies are very old, and they declared this as "early testing" and were hoping for larger studies to be done later. I don't know if they were, or not.

Either way, I know very well what retin-a does, as I use a retinoid on my face to treat acne. I just need to get some scalp sunscreen. For $3 a month, i'm willing to give it a shot

 

[mvpsoft]

For a while I used a minoxidil solution that included retin-a. It cause my scalp to flake in huge chunks.