Thoughts On Dr. Carlos Wesley New Topical? Looks Promising

[Quest]

Nothing new here as far as combining finasteride + min but the addition of PRP is interesting. Wesley claims that serum dht levels are only reduced 19% where as they are reduced 70%

"Once-a-day use of the 0.25% topical finasteride resulted in much a less severe decrease in DHT plasma levels (19%) that those seen in patients using the pill once a day (70%) or twice daily use of either topical or pill form. Our blend (circled in blue) uses a lower percentage of finasteride than that used in this study and our patients only use the blend once (not twice) daily."

Is this true? It's backed by other research, but I've read before that topical finasteride goes systemic, maybe his dose is low enough to prevent that? Would love some input as I can't tolerate oral finasteride and this is a better solution for side sufferers.

heres the full article:


http://www.drcarloswesley.com/medical-therapy-for-hair-loss/

 

[Swoop]

That's because he doesn't seem to be able to interpret basic studies

These "single" dosages is literally when the treatment is given for 1 day. The "multiple" dose lines is when the treatment is given in a longer amount of time, in this study that's 7 days.

And when you look at the 7 day data you can see that both the tablet and topical solution inhibit about as much serum DHT.

 

[whatevr]

I don't see the point in topical finasteride. If you are going to put a 5AR inhibitor on your scalp, then at least use topical dutasteride to get the 5AR1 that is dominant in the scalp? Though topical dutasteride is harder to make due to penetration issues caused by molecular weight.
Topical finasteride just doesn't make much sense. You're banking on the finasteride staying in the scalp where it isn't going to do a hell of a lot of good anyway. If you want to stop the DHT produced in the scalp you need a 5AR1 inhibitor, and finasteride can only really work if it goes systemic which defeats the point.

 

[Quest]

That's because he doesn't seem to be able to interpret basic studies

These "single" dosages is literally when the treatment is given for 1 day. The "multiple" dose lines is when the treatment is given in a longer amount of time, in this study that's 7 days.

And when you look at the 7 day data you can see that both the tablet and topical solution inhibit about as much serum DHT.

able to post that 7-day data?

this is some serious misinformation, he even claims the topical reduces sides...

while I have you here, swoop, can I ask your thoughts on Hasson&wongs liposomal method of delivery for topical finasteride? It's the only "alternative" to oral finasteride that actually looks like it may have some science behind it as far as keeping serum dht close to normal. But it's new and I'm waiting for others to chime in on it before I get my hopes up.

 

[Quest]

I don't see the point in topical finasteride. If you are going to put a 5AR inhibitor on your scalp, then at least use topical dutasteride to get the 5AR1 that is dominant in the scalp? Though topical dutasteride is harder to make due to penetration issues caused by molecular weight.
Topical finasteride just doesn't make much sense. You're banking on the finasteride staying in the scalp where it isn't going to do a hell of a lot of good anyway. If you want to stop the DHT produced in the scalp you need a 5AR1 inhibitor, and finasteride can only really work if it goes systemic which defeats the point.

Originally I was interested in this bc of Hasson & wongs liposomal topical which is believed to stay local, which in theory would work but It's still very new. Someone on a similar thread mentioned this topical, but I agree, Dr Wesley's solution is BS and will present the same results and issues as oral. However H&W's formula could be promising, thoughts on the liposomal method of delivery?

 

[whatevr]

Originally I was interested in this bc of Hasson & wongs liposomal topical which is believed to stay local, which in theory would work but It's still very new. Someone on a similar thread mentioned this topical, but I agree, Dr Wesley's solution is BS and will present the same results and issues as oral. However H&W's formula could be promising, thoughts on the liposomal method of delivery?

The Polichem topical finasteride trial results suggest that it works at reducing scalp DHT. Whether that correlates to lessened hair loss is the question (the dynamics of scalp and serum DHT are not that well understood in the context of hair loss). However the theory to support how or why it works isn't really there. I think they need to do longer clinical trials and follow all the markers such as serum DHT, their trial was too short.

In any case I still think dutasteride would be far superior if delivered in a similar way.

 

[Swoop]

able to post that 7-day data?

this is some serious misinformation, he even claims the topical reduces sides...

while I have you here, swoop, can I ask your thoughts on Hasson&wongs liposomal method of delivery for topical finasteride? It's the only "alternative" to oral finasteride that actually looks like it may have some science behind it as far as keeping serum dht close to normal. But it's new and I'm waiting for others to chime in on it before I get my hopes up.

You see it in that graph. I can't access the full study but what they probably did is measure serum DHT after a 1 day application of tablet and the topical over a 36 hour period. Indeed when applied for one day only the topical does decrease less serum DHT than the tablet.

What I assume next is that they continued he treatment and took another measure like that on the 7th day of giving both treatments and then measured it for another 36 hours. In this case serum DHT suppression for both treatments was very similar.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25074865

The conclusion says it all really;

A strong and similar inhibition of plasma DHT was found after 1 week of treatment with the topical and tablet finasteride ormulations, albeit finasteride plasma exposure was significantly lower with the topical than with the oral product (p < 0.0001).