Theoretically shouldnt dutasteride work for everyone?

[massa]

If its true dutasteride eradicates DHT by 95% shouldn't that be enough to halt the balding process. Are their people out there who are a non responder to dutasteride, and if so does that mean that other androgens play a role in male pattern baldness. I added a 0.5g per day of dutasteride a week ago after an agonising 10 months of pure hell waiting for propecia to work and in that time I may have gone down a few norwoods as a result. What realistically can a expect to happen from the use of dutasteride. I don't seem to get any side effects so that's a good sign but my hair is a nw3 now and rapidly declining when back when I popped my first propecia I was nw2 with slight thinning at the front and that was at the start of this year!!!! Please give me hope by saying dutasteride is an effective drug, I need this to work so badly or else im screwed.

 

[smyth01]

If its true dutasteride eradicates DHT by 95% shouldn't that be enough to halt the balding process. Are their people out there who are a non responder to dutasteride, and if so does that mean that other androgens play a role in male pattern baldness. I added a 0.5g per day of dutasteride a week ago after an agonising 10 months of pure hell waiting for propecia to work and in that time I may have gone down a few norwoods as a result. What realistically can a expect to happen from the use of dutasteride. I don't seem to get any side effects so that's a good sign but my hair is a nw3 now and rapidly declining when back when I popped my first propecia I was nw2 with slight thinning at the front and that was at the start of this year!!!! Please give me hope by saying dutasteride is an effective drug, I need this to work so badly or else im screwed.

Unfortunately there are non responders to the drug, as in their DHT is not reduced from taking either finasteride or dutasteride.

 

[Spanishlad]

Unfortunately there are non responders to the drug, as in their DHT is not reduced from taking either finasteride or dutasteride.

I always understood it differently, as in DHT is reduced in everyone who takes it but this DHT suppression does not achieve improvements in the hair in everyone who takes it.

I think I saw a study relating to this but I cant remember where , so feel free to prove me wrong..

 

[RoyD]

Yes I am a non responder too. I've been on dutasteride for 11 months now and I'm still losing hair. Basically my situation almost exactly matches yours. I was a NW2 when on Propecia and then I moved to dutasteride since it wasn't working. Now I'm an NW3. For some people it just doesn't work.

 

[isishearmyplea]

how old are you Roy?

 

[RoyD]

21

 

[smyth01]

Im basing the statement from blood tests posted here and body building forum where the results showed absolutely no reduction in DHT levels with finasteride after 3 months.

 

[massa]

	1mg finasteride	0.5mg dutasteride	2.5 dutasteride
Type II	87%	100%	100%
Type I	0%	53%	77%
Sebaceous	38%	55%	79%
Serum	70%	92%	96%

I found this on another forum. Even if your hair follicles were extra sensitive to DHT then blocking Serum levels by 92% surely even if your hair loss did progress it would only be at 8% the rate of what you were currently losing it before?? Or does it not work like that?

 

[RoyD]

Look at the Sebaceous not the Serum. Serum DHT is in your blood and Sebaceous is in your scalp to put it bluntly. Scalp is where we need the help and dutasteride only blocks 55% of it. I guess we could make the assumption that dutasteride at least slows down the rate of hair loss by half if not less. Still I feel like my hair loss has slowed down maybe 25% max. I guess the sensitivity of hair follicles is also a big factor in this. I believe some people's hair follicles must be susceptible to even 20% scalp DHT.

 

[zzzzz]

	1mg finasteride	0.5mg dutasteride	2.5 dutasteride
Type II	87%	100%	100%
Type I	0%	53%	77%
Sebaceous	38%	55%	79%
Serum	70%	92%	96%

I found this on another forum. Even if your hair follicles were extra sensitive to DHT then blocking Serum levels by 92% surely even if your hair loss did progress it would only be at 8% the rate of what you were currently losing it before?? Or does it not work like that?

that includes type 1 DHT as well though. I am not sure of the ratio of type 1 DHT to type 2 DHT in the scalp (if someone could find this info it would help). But what if the scalp DHT consisted of 45% of type 1 and 55% of type 2? That would mean the dutasteride is still inhibiting at near 100% levels of whats important (type 2)

 

[xRedStaRx]

If its true dutasteride eradicates DHT by 95% shouldn't that be enough to halt the balding process. Are their people out there who are a non responder to dutasteride, and if so does that mean that other androgens play a role in male pattern baldness. I added a 0.5g per day of dutasteride a week ago after an agonising 10 months of pure hell waiting for propecia to work and in that time I may have gone down a few norwoods as a result. What realistically can a expect to happen from the use of dutasteride. I don't seem to get any side effects so that's a good sign but my hair is a nw3 now and rapidly declining when back when I popped my first propecia I was nw2 with slight thinning at the front and that was at the start of this year!!!! Please give me hope by saying dutasteride is an effective drug, I need this to work so badly or else im screwed.

No, typically everyone responds to dutasteride. You're going to stop hair loss <99% of the time.

Unfortunately there are non responders to the drug, as in their DHT is not reduced from taking either finasteride or dutasteride.

That's not true. Non-responders have a different issue altogether.

I always understood it differently, as in DHT is reduced in everyone who takes it but this DHT suppression does not achieve improvements in the hair in everyone who takes it.

I think I saw a study relating to this but I cant remember where , so feel free to prove me wrong..

Kind of, yes.

The thing is, these drugs stop the root of the problem, but some people continue to lose the damaged hairs anyway, they just don't heal as well as good responders.

	1mg finasteride	0.5mg dutasteride	2.5 dutasteride
Type II	87%	100%	100%
Type I	0%	53%	77%
Sebaceous	38%	55%	79%
Serum	70%	92%	96%

I found this on another forum. Even if your hair follicles were extra sensitive to DHT then blocking Serum levels by 92% surely even if your hair loss did progress it would only be at 8% the rate of what you were currently losing it before?? Or does it not work like that?

Doesn't work like that. It's generally not the amount of DHT flowing through your veins that causes hair loss.

Look at the Sebaceous not the Serum. Serum DHT is in your blood and Sebaceous is in your scalp to put it bluntly. Scalp is where we need the help and dutasteride only blocks 55% of it. I guess we could make the assumption that dutasteride at least slows down the rate of hair loss by half if not less. Still I feel like my hair loss has slowed down maybe 25% max. I guess the sensitivity of hair follicles is also a big factor in this. I believe some people's hair follicles must be susceptible to even 20% scalp DHT.

That's not how it works either. Sebaceous gland activity is not a good proxy for dutasteride nor finasteride's Androgenetic Alopecia combating efficiacy.

 

[Rudolphus]

It is the DHT in the dermal papillae of the hair follicles that does the damage, not the DHT on the scalp itself. Unless it is possible for some of the scalp DHT to migrate into the dermal papillae (which I doubt would happen), scalp DHT is of no significance in terms of causing hair loss. The DHT in the dermal papillae appears to be entirely from the type 2 5-AR enzyme. This is why blocking the action of this enzyme is so effective.

For the large majority of male pattern baldness sufferers, Dutasteride would be expected to put a complete stop to the balding process. However, if your hair loss is ultra-aggressive, dutasteride may not be enough to stop your hair loss, although it would dramatically slow it down. The reason why dutasteride may not stop hair loss for some people is partly because testosterone and other androgens can also affect the hair follicles, although their affinity for the androgen receptor is much, much weaker than that of DHT.

Also, remember that dutasteride still leaves a very small amount of DHT from the type 2 5-AR enzyme left, and we also shouldn't rule out the possibility that DHT from the type 1 enzyme could play a role in male pattern baldness. dutasteride at the standard dose removes 50% of this DHT.

 

[isishearmyplea]

21

Oh, its very aggressive . . . are you gonna/planning to get a hair transplant in future Roy? Did you get any sides on finasteride/dutasteride?