The Different Kinds Of Hairloss (need Your Opinion About This Study)

[Abelibano]

First of all I would like to say hello to everyone and congratulations for contributing to this forum,it's a whole new level comparing to other forums and especially to local forums of each country.(If posted in the wrong section please transfer it to the proper one)

This has exactly led me here,as I want to share with you a rather radical(?) theory a member of a local forum in my country has.

This member is a Biochemical Engineer, with major in food technology. Truth is,his ways are a bit unorthodox yet there is no suspicion he is a scammer because he doesn't really sell something but rather provides his knowledge and links for products (random sites).
The interesting part is his theory about hairloss: He claims that not every pattern is caused by elevated DHT levels (or sensivity to DHT as some might say). He believes that this is just a PROPORTION of all hairloss cases.More specifically,he claims that there are 3 major categories,with sub-categories. According to him, the distinguable differences of hairloss patterns are actually showing the undergoing issue:

1)Hairloss caused by elevated DHT (with 2 I think sub-cases, regarding the 2 isoenzymes of 5a-reductase)
This is the classic hairloss,in which hairline recedes and the temples are challenged too. Notice though that in the beginning at least,the unaffected areas have good hair density.
He associates this case with dry hair/scalp.

2)Hairloss caused by elevated E1 hormone (estrone). This case has also 2 sub-cases,this time related with the 17-β isoenzymes. The pattern of this case is hairloss in temples,with the frontal-middle part almost intact, and diffused thinning behind this area.
He associates this case with oily hair/scalp

3)Hairloss caused by elevated E2 hormone (estradiol), which he claims is a rare case,less than 2%, which causes mainly hairloss in the back of the head.

(I would like to upload images but there seems to be an issue).
He claims that those are just initial patterns,and as years go by the hairloss extends and is way more difficult to categorize as all types start to resemble.

His points (some of which are pretty solid):
Finasteride is not working for anyone.This is somehow a unique case of a drug,with such diversity in side effects and effectives.This could be attributed to the fact that it works only for DHT-cases.
It can't be a coincidence that people suffer from hairloss with different patterns,but rather different reasons result to different patterns.
He claims to have studied individual cases of people,asking them to have blood tests of those 3 hormones and the results backup his studies.Also people in my forum confirmed his studies with their blood tests.
The main issue is that he advises people to use specific natural food or supplements. As those are not drugs,their effectiveness is not that impressive but there is scientific data behind it (eg, you can look up for peppermint oil capsules)
Finally,he tries to publish a solid scientific paper,with many cases in order to be statistically correct. He hasn't achieved this yet (he conducts studies with some professors in a local university and there is under-funding).

I would really like to hear your opinion about this. I have gone through this quite a long time now,searching a lot of stuff online and although there are scientific proofs indeed, I can't link the missing dots.

 

[Armando Jose]

Wellcome to the forum

In my opinion cases with dry or oily hair/scalp is caused by the same reason, problems with sebum. These
are the two edges of the same sword.

Where are you located?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

@Abelibano,

I don't have the expertise to give a validating opinion on this line of study but it sounds promising. It's certainly the case that DHT is not responsible for everything, in general balding men have the same serum androgen levels as non-balding men, the only serum parameters known to differ are insulin and SHBG. Ask him what he thinks about insulin and SHBG.

It is also the case that people have different patterns and this needs to be explained. It may simply be that people have different distributions of androgen receptors on their head, who knows. But in general the patterns seem to be:
- Hairline->temples go first (my pattern);
- Crown goes first;
- Diffuse thinning all over the top (my secondary pattern i think);
- DUPA;
As far as I know, nobody has looked into this. There is one exception, a small study has shown that both finasteride and saw palmetto help with crown loss, but only finasteride and not saw palmetto help with the hairline. That study was not replicated though and is from obscure scientists.

Of the 4 cases above, men typically get #1 and #2, whereas women typically get #3, another hint.

As for "natural foods", people are skeptical because the advice is garbage, but in principle I wouldn't be opposed to taking a natural food regimen from someone who knows what they're talking about.

 

[BTW]

I'm not sure what you want from the members of this forum. Scientific studies are not about proving a point, you just present and analyze the data you get. Meaning that if the theory you posted is right, it is just as important as the fact that the theory you posted is wrong if that's what the data says.

My two cents which I will keep repeating is that Androgenetic Alopecia is a hormonal imbalance, and it is the equivalent imbalance of the kind you see in women with polycystic ovary syndrome. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27304785. "Men with early Androgenetic Alopecia could be considered as male phenotypic equivalents of women with PCOS. They can be at risk of developing the same complications associated with PCOS, including obesity, metabolic syndrome, IR, cardiovascular diseases, and infertility."
My father had Androgenetic Alopecia since his early 20's, I inherited this from him. He now has metabolic syndrome, meaning he is obese with a very big waist circumference, hypertriglyceridemia, high cholesterol, hypertension, his blood sugar was 109 when the upper limit is 110. My body mass index is 19 but who knows what will happen in 20 years with me

So yeah, there is a lot of room for studies of the kind you posted, it's just that people will laugh at you if you consider doing a study on male patients in their 20's with alopecia.

 

[Ashkan63]

Hairloss is caused by immune system not your hormones,ofcourse the hormons play a key role thats why finasteride works but the main reason is the immune system,if natural food could treat any immune disease disorder it would be great but it wont so dont waste your time

 

[Abelibano]

Hairloss is caused by immune system not your hormones,ofcourse the hormons play a key role thats why finasteride works but the main reason is the immune system,if natural food could treat any immune disease disorder it would be great but it wont so dont waste your time

As for "natural foods", people are skeptical because the advice is garbage, but in principle I wouldn't be opposed to taking a natural food regimen from someone who knows what they're talking about.

@David_MPN that's the whole point man.This engineer knows which foods affect which enzymes and the mechanics behind it.He doesn't suggest we should "eat healthier". He advices people to get peppermint oil capsules,s-equol,curcumin and other very specific stuff (corresponding to each case of course).
But I think he is aware himself too that the results from those foods could be very slow and a possible treatment requires patience. Also he is not against Minoxidil or even Finasteride (although he believes a lighter DHT-Blocker should usually do fine)

@Ashkan63 hormones=expression of the immune system.That's way oversimplified of course.So in a way, a proper diet=>affects enzymes=>affects hormones=>it calibrates the immune system

 

[Abelibano]

I'm not sure what you want from the members of this forum. Scientific studies are not about proving a point, you just present and analyze the data you get. Meaning that if the theory you posted is right, it is just as important as the fact that the theory you posted is wrong if that's what the data says.

My two cents which I will keep repeating is that Androgenetic Alopecia is a hormonal imbalance, and it is the equivalent imbalance of the kind you see in women with polycystic ovary syndrome. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27304785. "Men with early Androgenetic Alopecia could be considered as male phenotypic equivalents of women with PCOS. They can be at risk of developing the same complications associated with PCOS, including obesity, metabolic syndrome, IR, cardiovascular diseases, and infertility."
My father had Androgenetic Alopecia since his early 20's, I inherited this from him. He now has metabolic syndrome, meaning he is obese with a very big waist circumference, hypertriglyceridemia, high cholesterol, hypertension, his blood sugar was 109 when the upper limit is 110. My body mass index is 19 but who knows what will happen in 20 years with me

I just want to see other opinions,in case anyone has noticed anything like that or in case eg. this theory has been debunked in the past.
I completely agree with the rest of your post. Estrogen dominance could really mess your body. Not only is related to fat gain, but also it hazards the whole body in the long term.Even your mood and your feelings are affected (our hormonal profile has a huge impact on our feelings)
There is a lot of research about estrogen dominance and surprise surprise...one of the symptoms is hairloss.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

@David_MPN that's the whole point man.This engineer knows which foods affect which enzymes and the mechanics behind it.He doesn't suggest we should "eat healthier". He advices people to get peppermint oil capsules,s-equol,curcumin and other very specific stuff (corresponding to each case of course).
But I think he is aware himself too that the results from those foods could be very slow and a possible treatment requires patience. Also he is not against Minoxidil or even Finasteride (although he believes a lighter DHT-Blocker should usually do fine)

@Ashkan63 hormones=expression of the immune system.That's way oversimplified of course.So in a way, a proper diet=>affects enzymes=>affects hormones=>it calibrates the immune system

He can't possible be aware of which foods do what as the literature itself is inconclusive. There's a ton of BS on pub,ed as to what does what.

With that said, what's his natural food regimen for hairline + temple recession with moderate diffuse thinning?

 

[abcdefg]

Decent guess, but yeah I mean products like brotzu already based on equol. Lots of the other stuff is just questionable if it works, and all the specifics leave you guessing. How much peppermint oil, what vehicle, what purity of chemical in it matters, and so on. You can just say drink peppermint oil and expect that to solve male pattern baldness because it wont.
Some natural combination might work, but with the huge history of scams you need that little thing called evidence/credibility before its worth even thinking about.