????The biggest hairloss mystery????

[Guest]

I read a lot of research about male pattern baldness and the latest theories on how this is happening phisiologically, but there are some HUGE questions that are not only un-answered but can contradict the latest theories of how male pattern baldness is what it is.

Why do some men lose their hair and others don't?

or more specifically: we all have DHT and it does it's job in every animal body so why wouldn't everyone go bald, even women?

If male pattern baldness is wholly caused by DHT or even T binding to the androgen receptors in hair follicles than how would taking alpha blockers that don't limit ALL DHT have any effect whatsoever in the treatment of male pattern baldness?

Finally, if DHT is needed in the body, why would an accumulation of DHT in the hair follicle trigger an auto immune response to kill that predisposed hair follicle and why doesn't DHT cause this anywhere else in the body where it accumulates?

Either I am fuzzy on my knowledge of human phisiolgy or we know very little about what causes hair loss. Maybe a little of both?

Please, any feedback is good feedback.

 

[DonaldAnderson]

Bump.
Good questions. I've been wondering about the first question. It is very strange when i think about. Why not animals or woman or any other part of the body? I wish I could answer those. Just one of god's tests i guess.

 

[Petchsky]

Some women, when given testosterone injections do start to suffer typical male pattern baldness.

 

[Solo]

Good points.


Another one:


Why in the horseshoe pattern?

Why the f*** everybody thins until getting a horseshoe pattern??

 

[S Foote.]

I read a lot of research about male pattern baldness and the latest theories on how this is happening phisiologically, but there are some HUGE questions that are not only un-answered but can contradict the latest theories of how male pattern baldness is what it is.

Why do some men lose their hair and others don't?

or more specifically: we all have DHT and it does it's job in every animal body so why wouldn't everyone go bald, even women?

If male pattern baldness is wholly caused by DHT or even T binding to the androgen receptors in hair follicles than how would taking alpha blockers that don't limit ALL DHT have any effect whatsoever in the treatment of male pattern baldness?

Finally, if DHT is needed in the body, why would an accumulation of DHT in the hair follicle trigger an auto immune response to kill that predisposed hair follicle and why doesn't DHT cause this anywhere else in the body where it accumulates?

Either I am fuzzy on my knowledge of human phisiolgy or we know very little about what causes hair loss. Maybe a little of both?

Please, any feedback is good feedback.

Hi.

I dont think there is any doubt that male pattern baldness is `caused' by androgens, certainly by a given level of DHT in the individual.

But i think, and despite what some may say here, that the greater body of evidence indicates an `indirect' effect, that is `outside' of the follicles.

The early assumptions of why `some' follicles survive when transplanted, that the current theory is based on, have been shown to be highly suspect by the modern body of evidence.

You make some good points, and more and more scientists are now taking a second look at some of the unscientific assumptions the current theory is based on.

About time too :roll:

S Foote.

 

[michael barry]

Stephen,
Did you ever get to read up on the sodium nitrite research? (The nitrite is used by the body to make nitric oxide from last week)?

Also, I didnt know this, but tripped up on the information that both emu oil and jojoba oil (both known as "good for hair") are mild diuretics and so is aloe vera and caffeine. The emu has linolenic (40+ %) and oleic acid which inhibit alpha 5 very well and if anything could penetrate the skin to get them around the follicle, emu could.


I have to conclude draining lymph fluid from upper layers of the scalp
simply must have some beneficial effect on heatlth of hair by the fact that so many hair tonics like minoxidil and spironolactone and the aforementined have fluid shifting effects. I read that Dr. Loren Pickart (on his Folligen page) believes that the damage around the follicle and specifically the loss of fat layers around the follicles damage them greatly. He has aloe vera in his product also.........a diuretic and NO releaser. He's pretty sharp guy, Im inclined to give his thoughts a listen.

 

[Bryan]

Also, I didnt know this, but tripped up on the information that both emu oil and jojoba oil (both known as "good for hair") are mild diuretics and so is aloe vera and caffeine. The emu has linolenic (40+ %) and oleic acid which inhibit alpha 5 very well and if anything could penetrate the skin to get them around the follicle, emu could.

The fatty acids in emu oil aren't in their "free" form. They won't inhibit 5a-reductase.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Why do some men lose their hair and others don't?

or more specifically: we all have DHT and it does it's job in every animal body so why wouldn't everyone go bald, even women?

Different people have hair follicles with different sensitivities and responses to androgens.

If male pattern baldness is wholly caused by DHT or even T binding to the androgen receptors in hair follicles than how would taking alpha blockers that don't limit ALL DHT have any effect whatsoever in the treatment of male pattern baldness?

It's a threshold effect, obviously. Even eunuchs (who don't go bald) aren't COMPLETELY devoid of androgens.

Finally, if DHT is needed in the body, why would an accumulation of DHT in the hair follicle trigger an auto immune response to kill that predisposed hair follicle and why doesn't DHT cause this anywhere else in the body where it accumulates?

The auto-immune response is still pretty much a theory. In fact, it may only be a hypothesis. Androgens have been clearly demonstrated to have a direct suppressive effect on human scalp hair follicles.

Bryan

 

[wangho75]

Why do some men lose their hair and others don't?

or more specifically: we all have DHT and it does it's job in every animal body so why wouldn't everyone go bald, even women?

Different people have hair follicles with different sensitivities and responses to androgens.

[quote="Paradise Lost":6e082]If male pattern baldness is wholly caused by DHT or even T binding to the androgen receptors in hair follicles than how would taking alpha blockers that don't limit ALL DHT have any effect whatsoever in the treatment of male pattern baldness?

It's a threshold effect, obviously. Even eunuchs (who don't go bald) aren't COMPLETELY devoid of androgens.

Finally, if DHT is needed in the body, why would an accumulation of DHT in the hair follicle trigger an auto immune response to kill that predisposed hair follicle and why doesn't DHT cause this anywhere else in the body where it accumulates?

The auto-immune response is still pretty much a theory. In fact, it may only be a hypothesis. Androgens have been clearly demonstrated to have a direct suppressive effect on human scalp hair follicles.

Bryan[/quote:6e082]

A study of 10 men aged 40 with FULL heads of hair and 10 men aged 40 with degrees of male pattern baldness should be conducted. EVERYTHING should be singled out to see what the male pattern baldness men would be lacking or having too much of, to try and pinpoint the causes. I wonder if a study like this has ever been done??

 

[imissmyhair]

that would be very interesting to see. wish scientist were more interested in male pattern baldness. if they researched this like cancer or aids it would have probably been a true cure by now :shock:

male pattern baldness is just not that big a deal to the scientific community i think because it is not life threatening

 

[wangho75]

that would be very interesting to see. wish scientist were more interested in male pattern baldness. if they researched this like cancer or aids it would have probably been a true cure by now :shock:

male pattern baldness is just not that big a deal to the scientific community i think because it is not life threatening

there a hell of a lot of money to be made though. Isn't the scientific community's main drive to make alot of money? Arent scientific breakthroughs backed by money to make money, with the lesser intention of a breakthrough?

 

[S Foote.]

Stephen,
Did you ever get to read up on the sodium nitrite research? (The nitrite is used by the body to make nitric oxide from last week)?

Also, I didnt know this, but tripped up on the information that both emu oil and jojoba oil (both known as "good for hair") are mild diuretics and so is aloe vera and caffeine. The emu has linolenic (40+ %) and oleic acid which inhibit alpha 5 very well and if anything could penetrate the skin to get them around the follicle, emu could.


I have to conclude draining lymph fluid from upper layers of the scalp
simply must have some beneficial effect on heatlth of hair by the fact that so many hair tonics like minoxidil and spironolactone and the aforementined have fluid shifting effects. I read that Dr. Loren Pickart (on his Folligen page) believes that the damage around the follicle and specifically the loss of fat layers around the follicles damage them greatly. He has aloe vera in his product also.........a diuretic and NO releaser. He's pretty sharp guy, Im inclined to give his thoughts a listen.

Hi Michael.

I havn't had much chance to post recently, because of some ongoing family issues. I will read your sodium nitrite info later if i get chance, thanks for posting.

S Foote.

 

[S Foote.]

Why do some men lose their hair and others don't?

or more specifically: we all have DHT and it does it's job in every animal body so why wouldn't everyone go bald, even women?

Different people have hair follicles with different sensitivities and responses to androgens.

The in-vitro tests clearly prove that wrong Bryan as i have pointed out to you many times.

This is just one of the reasons why professional scientists are not happy with the current `notion', as Dr Sawaya has clearly indicated.

S Foote.

 

[Bryan]

A study of 10 men aged 40 with FULL heads of hair and 10 men aged 40 with degrees of male pattern baldness should be conducted. EVERYTHING should be singled out to see what the male pattern baldness men would be lacking or having too much of, to try and pinpoint the causes. I wonder if a study like this has ever been done??

Well, I doubt the usefullness of that specific technique, but let's just say that doctors and scientists are working on finding the exact molecular mechanisms of balding, even as we speak.

Bryan

 

[hairschmair]

I've heard people mention multiple times that there is no money to be made in finding a cure to male pattern baldness.

This is BS, the only reason the current products aren't that profitable is because they are not very effective and the relatively effective ones have side-effects. If a true cure to male pattern baldness was to be found, over a billion people in the world would be taking it, eventually.

 

[Bryan]

Different people have hair follicles with different sensitivities and responses to androgens.

The in-vitro tests clearly prove that wrong Bryan as i have pointed out to you many times.

This is just one of the reasons why professional scientists are not happy with the current `notion', as Dr Sawaya has clearly indicated.

Keep telling yourself that, Stephen! :wink:

Bryan

 

[S Foote.]

Different people have hair follicles with different sensitivities and responses to androgens.

The in-vitro tests clearly prove that wrong Bryan as i have pointed out to you many times.

This is just one of the reasons why professional scientists are not happy with the current `notion', as Dr Sawaya has clearly indicated.

Keep telling yourself that, Stephen! :wink:

Bryan

I don't have to tell `myself' that Bryan, Dr Sawaya told me that herself, as i have posted before. :wink:

This quote from her response about my theory:

"It is a very complex process, but your thoughts are very organized and on the right path, similar to what others have been proposing, and in some ways yours are more straightforward. I think you've done a good job in thinking this through......
Hope this helps...
regards
Marty Sawaya"

The key words here being "similar to what others are proposing".

If professional scientists are making similar proposals as me, how can they possibly be content with the `old notions' you continue to blindly support?

Your the one who is being naive here Bryan :roll:

S Foote.

 

[S Foote.]

Michael.

Would you please post a link to that thread where you posted the sodium nitrite info, i can't remember the thread title Duh :roll:

Thanks.

S Foote.

 

[michael barry]

Stephen,
The sodium nitrite making nitric oxide article was from the Associated Press reprinted in the local paper here. It is in the "Byran: About Hirsutism" thread here on HairLossTalk.com. You can look for all posts by me by clicking on my profile and proboably get it.

 

[Bryan]

Stephen, your Sawaya anecdote of which you're so proud reminds me of the following similar scenario:

At a grade-school assembly to meet famous astronauts, a little kid goes up to Neil Armstrong and says: "Gee, Mr. Armstrong, I wanna be a famous astronaut just like you, and walk on the moon! I even have my own design for a rocket ship to take me there!!" And Armstrong glances at the crude drawing done with pencil and paper, smiles pleasantly at the little fellow, pats him on the head, and says: "If you work hard and study hard, you too can become an astronaut. I'm sure you'll be an astronaut some day and fly to the moon in your rocket ship!"

The little kid is floating on air for all the rest of the day. He goes around telling all his little friends, "Neil Armstrong says I'm gonna be an astronaut some day, and fly to the moon in my rocket ship!!"



Bryan