Seriously Think Propecia Is Dose Dependant

[Crystalclear12]

Every blog I've read, everyone's argument points directly to the bell curve study chart. One study saying there isn't a difference between .05-5mg of finasteride. Legit over 50 comments on the subject used that chart a source. In my opinion it is dose dependant. 1 mg is the average dose prescribed in order to mass produce the product. It's an average. Everyone is different however. Some have high test levels, not to mention some weight significantly more. Weight may not be a factor, but most medication dose is influenced by weight. Also, that dosage chart doesn't take into account that after a certain amount of time on propecia, your body builds a tolerance. My conclusion... if propecia starts losing effectiveness, up the dose for the same results. I've been on finasteride for 6/7 years and I notice it's not as strong. Bumping it up to 2mg. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Also another subject I want to address- generic vs brand name. I'm starting to think it's possible that generic just isn't the same quality as brand name. Obviously they both have 1 mg finasteride, but the inactive ingredients (which is how it's delivered into your body) is not the same. Generic simply isn't regulated the way propecia is. I read that generic can be between -+.03 the dose, and propecia can be between +-.01. It doesn't matter what anyone says, generic is never as good as.name brand. Kellogg's corn flakes are 10x better than Costco brend. Same product, same ingredients roughly, but ones better.
Sorry if my spelling/grammar is sh*t I can barely see what I'm writing my phone screen is completely cracked.

I ordered brand name propecia, and I'll be taking 1mg in 12 hour intervals. 2mg in 24 hours. I'll keep anyone interested updated

 

[Michael1986]

Finasteride is finasteride is finasteride. As long as the generic version is legitimate, it should be no less effective than brand-name Propecia.

For the large majority of people, there is not much difference in effectiveness between all doses of finasteride above 0.2mg. However, there are some people who are outliers and who need a much higher dose in order for it to be effective. In order to cover all the outliers, Merck chose 1mg as the standard dose.

 

[Crystalclear12]

Finasteride is finasteride is finasteride. As long as the generic version is legitimate, it should be no less effective than brand-name Propecia.

For the large majority of people, there is not much difference in effectiveness between all doses of finasteride above 0.2mg. However, there are some people who are outliers and who need a much higher dose in order for it to be effective. In order to cover all the outliers, Merck chose 1mg as the standard dose.

That's not correct. It pretty clear .02-1.5 shows variation. And that study doesn't account for long time use or built up tolerances. There isn't a shred of scientific evidence that says finasteride users don't build a tolerance to the drug.

 

[Michael1986]

That's not correct. It pretty clear .02-1.5 shows variation. And that study doesn't account for long time use or built up tolerances. There isn't a shred of scientific evidence that says finasteride users don't build a tolerance to the drug.

There is some difference in effectiveness between 0.2mg and the larger doses of 1mg or 5mg, but my understanding is that for most people this difference is small. I am open to correction though if there may have been some studies suggesting that the difference in effectiveness is large, although I personally am not aware of any such studies.

 

[Crystalclear12]

There is some difference in effectiveness between 0.2mg and the larger doses of 1mg or 5mg, but my understanding is that for most people this difference is small. I am open to correction though if there may have been some studies suggesting that the difference in effectiveness is large, although I personally am not aware of any such studies.

The study shows a small percentage of increased dht being blocked from .05-1.5, like 5% , which isn't much. My point is that there aren't any studies showing how much dht is blocked when a user has been on the drug for over 5 years. I have extremely slow hairloss, and I've been on finasteride for over 6 years and I can definitely say in this last year it has lost effectiveness. Not only with my hair but also my sides disappeared (the few sides I was experiencing). Which makes me think over time the dose needs to increase just like any other medication. If you have a over active/under active thyroid, doctors put you on meds and after 5 or so years your dosage is usually increased for that specific medication. What makes finasteride different. According to people's logic, finasteride is the only drug that doesn't need to have the dosage adjusted over time. Makes no sense.

 

[Michael1986]

I don't think that the amount of 5 alpha reductase inhibited by finasteride at a consistent dosage would change over time in the same individual though. I don't think that is the way enzyme inhibitors work. I'm fairly sure it would inhibit a fixed amount depending on your genotype, and that amount will be constant for as long as you continue to take it at the same dosage. What could change, however, is the ability for the leftover DHT to cause damage to your hair follicles, because androgen sensitivity naturally increases over time. Therefore, the small amount more DHT that is leftover from a 0.2 finasteride dosing scheme than that which is leftover from a 1mg dosing scheme could make all the difference over time once your androgen sensitivity has increased substantially and the threshold of DHT that is needed to affect the follicles decreases.

 

[Crystalclear12]

I don't think that the amount of 5 alpha reductase inhibited by finasteride at a consistent dosage would change over time in the same individual though. I don't think that is the way enzyme inhibitors work. I'm fairly sure it would inhibit a fixed amount depending on your genotype, and that amount will be constant for as long as you continue to take it at the same dosage. What could change, however, is the ability for the leftover DHT to cause damage to your hair follicles, because androgen sensitivity naturally increases over time. Therefore, the small amount more DHT that is leftover from a 0.2 finasteride dosing scheme than that which is leftover from a 1mg dosing scheme could make all the difference over time once your androgen sensitivity has increased substantially and the threshold of DHT that is needed to affect the follicles decreases.

How long have you been on finasteride? I didn't think it lost effectiveness either.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Every blog I've read, everyone's argument points directly to the bell curve study chart. One study saying there isn't a difference between .05-5mg of finasteride. Legit over 50 comments on the subject used that chart a source. In my opinion it is dose dependant. 1 mg is the average dose prescribed in order to mass produce the product. It's an average. Everyone is different however. Some have high test levels, not to mention some weight significantly more. Weight may not be a factor, but most medication dose is influenced by weight. Also, that dosage chart doesn't take into account that after a certain amount of time on propecia, your body builds a tolerance. My conclusion... if propecia starts losing effectiveness, up the dose for the same results. I've been on finasteride for 6/7 years and I notice it's not as strong. Bumping it up to 2mg. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Also another subject I want to address- generic vs brand name. I'm starting to think it's possible that generic just isn't the same quality as brand name. Obviously they both have 1 mg finasteride, but the inactive ingredients (which is how it's delivered into your body) is not the same. Generic simply isn't regulated the way propecia is. I read that generic can be between -+.03 the dose, and propecia can be between +-.01. It doesn't matter what anyone says, generic is never as good as.name brand. Kellogg's corn flakes are 10x better than Costco brend. Same product, same ingredients roughly, but ones better.
Sorry if my spelling/grammar is sh*t I can barely see what I'm writing my phone screen is completely cracked.

I ordered brand name propecia, and I'll be taking 1mg in 12 hour intervals. 2mg in 24 hours. I'll keep anyone interested updated

What's dose-independent in finasteride is the shift in DHT levels in the serum and in the skin. If there';s *any* other unknown factor contributing to hairloss among the countless hormones affected by finasteride, then finasteride will not have a dose-independent response.

 

[Crystalclear12]

What's dose-independent in finasteride is the shift in DHT levels in the serum and in the skin. If there';s *any* other unknown factor contributing to hairloss among the countless hormones affected by finasteride, then finasteride will not have a dose-independent response.

Right. You're all saying the same thing. Finasjderide isnt dose dependant. I'm saying over time you're body builds a tolerance to the finasteride drug, requiring an increased dose to block the same amount of dht. It is dose dependant but once you reach 1.5mg you won't see any significant difference by increasing. But once your dose is below 1.5mg it does decrease of effectiveness. When you build a toldersnce, 2mg for a vet could be as affective as 1.5mg to a rookie. If you look at studies conducted finasteride peaks in users at blocking dht at year 2 then slowly declines by year 5, when any available research stopped. Your body builds a tolerance to every drug. It's not about how the drug reacts to the body (filling its purpose) it's about how your body builds a tolerance to that dose. I've read many blogs online of others who say finasteride loses affectivness around year 5/6/7, and they upped the dose. I have extremely slow hairloss, and after over 6 years of nearly completely stopping hairloss, it's slowly progressing again like I did before I started finasteride. Also as of this year I don't have any sides that I used to get

 

[Michael1986]

I'm saying over time you're body builds a tolerance to the finasteride drug, requiring an increased dose to block the same amount of dht.

I don't think that is the way that Finasteride works chemically. A particular dosage of finasteride will inhibit a particular proportion of the 5-alpha reductase in your body. It does this by mimicking testosterone and binding to the active sites on the enzyme. I don't see any reason why the proportion of the enzyme that Finasteride would inhibit would change over time. Do you know of any studies showing precisely that it does?

If you look at studies conducted finasteride peaks in users at blocking dht at year 2 then slowly declines by year 5, when any available research stopped.

Are you saying the actual amount of 5-alpha reductase inhibition declined, or just that the effectiveness of the finasteride in terms of hair growth/density declined?

I have extremely slow hairloss, and after over 6 years of nearly completely stopping hairloss, it's slowly progressing again like I did before I started finasteride. Also as of this year I don't have any sides that I used to get

Have you thought about switching to dutasteride? It looks like now would be the time to consider it in your case.

 

[Crystalclear12]

I don't think that is the way that Finasteride works chemically. A particular dosage of finasteride will inhibit a particular proportion of the 5-alpha reductase in your body. It does this by mimicking testosterone and binding to the active sites on the enzyme. I don't see any reason why the proportion of the enzyme that Finasteride would inhibit would change over time. Do you know of any studies showing precisely that it does?

Are you saying the actual amount of 5-alpha reductase inhibition declined, or just that the effectiveness of the finasteride in terms of hair growth/density declined?


Have you thought about switching to dutasteride? It looks like now would be the time to consider it in your case.

Finasteride is a man made drug. I'm not talking about its function. Every medication has a purpose. I'm talking about building a tolerance to the drug finasteride. Every man made medication creates a tolerance over time.
I haven't started dutasteride because I think it's too risky. I think finasteride is a nice middle of the road drug. It's not as effective, but not as dangerous.

 

[Crystalclear12]

My point being if you build a tolerance 1mg could be thbe equivalent of .03 of someone just starting taking finasteride. Finasteride is dose dependant between .02-1.5mg with around 3-5% more dht being blocked. If your tolerance is allowing that extra 5-10% of test to be converted to dht, that could cause you to lose hair faster. Who knows. I'm trying it though. I read somewhere that the effects of finasteride start to ware off after 6-12 hours so I'm going to take 1mg ever 12 hrs. Also the integrity of the pill is the vehicle of house it is absorbed by your body (name brand vs generic). So What if the generic cheap pills are absorbed by your body quicker? Instead of like a time released pill. Who knows. All I do know is that wiTh anything else, the generic is never as good as the name brand. Never. Is rubinoff vodka the same as grey goose? Ya they're both vodka, ones just cleaner and more pure.

 

[JeanLucBB]

My point being if you build a tolerance 1mg could be thbe equivalent of .03 of someone just starting taking finasteride. Finasteride is dose dependant between .02-1.5mg with around 3-5% more dht being blocked. If your tolerance is allowing that extra 5-10% of test to be converted to dht, that could cause you to lose hair faster. Who knows. I'm trying it though. I read somewhere that the effects of finasteride start to ware off after 6-12 hours so I'm going to take 1mg ever 12 hrs. Also the integrity of the pill is the vehicle of house it is absorbed by your body (name brand vs generic). So What if the generic cheap pills are absorbed by your body quicker? Instead of like a time released pill. Who knows. All I do know is that wiTh anything else, the generic is never as good as the name brand. Never. Is rubinoff vodka the same as grey goose? Ya they're both vodka, ones just cleaner and more pure.

Nice bro-science and superstition bro. I like your lack of references and lack of cited data mate gives a nice free flowing jazz effect I mean f*** the facts right?

 

[Crystalclear12]

Nice bro-science and superstition bro. I like your lack of references and lack of cited data mate gives a nice free flowing jazz effect I mean f*** the facts right?

8,000 grafts won't give you a full head of hair. Period. Because math. And no study shows finasteride is as effective in year one as it is in year 5. Not a single one. And I've been of finasteride for 6 years and it's losing effectiveness and there are countless others saying it loses effectiveness around year 6 or 7. So ya keep believing you won't look like a science project. The best part is you'll never be able to take dutasteride because clearly, being on .25 mg of finasteride, you get sides LOL.

 

[JeanLucBB]

5500 grafts on norwood 6:

after

"lolz you'll look like you have a headband bro!"

Seriously, shut the f*** up and stop wasting peoples time with your posts. You cite zero data and when you're making claims about generics being drastically different than the brand name it just shows a basic lack of understanding how regulation of drugs work. You're a superstitious and negative idiot who holds beliefs not based on facts, and the loudest person in the room making your stupid claims and have no cited evidence to make them up.

Moron.

 

[Crystalclear12]

5500 grafts on norwood 6:

View attachment 66480

View attachment 66481



after

View attachment 66482


View attachment 66483




View attachment 66484


"lolz you'll look like you have a headband bro!"

Seriously, shut the f*** up and stop wasting peoples time with your posts. You cite zero data and when you're making claims about generics being drastically different than the brand name it just shows a basic lack of understanding how regulation of drugs work. You're a superstitious and negative idiot who holds beliefs not based on facts, and the loudest person in the room making your stupid claims and have no cited evidence to make them up.

Moron.

Hahaha dude you're an idiot and don't even know it it's hilarious. I don't understand how the regulation of drugs work? Hahaha dude any drug produced outside of the USA aka finpecia, isn't regulated by the FDA you dumb f***. That means any generic produced IN the United States IS regulated. They regulate everything from production to manufacturing. sh*t made in India is NOT REGULATED AKA THEY CAN PUT ANTTHJNT CHEAP IN THOSE PILLS FOR INACTIVE INGREDIENTS. Damn the worst kind of stupid is the people that don't know they're stupid.


And that perfectly combed 5,000 graft. Nw6 is the exception. He was a Norwood 6 and they placed his grafts to make it look like full coverage. You got 3,000 grafts just in your hairline. You won't be able to keep the same density of your hair transplant in the future.


Damn dude you legit know nothing of hair loss or hair transplants yet u have one

 

[JeanLucBB]

Hahaha dude you're an idiot and don't even know it it's hilarious. I don't understand how the regulation of drugs work? Hahaha dude any drug produced outside of the USA aka finpecia, isn't regulated by the FDA you dumb f***. That means any generic produced IN the United States IS regulated. They regulate everything from production to manufacturing. sh*t made in India is NOT REGULATED AKA THEY CAN PUT ANTTHJNT CHEAP IN THOSE PILLS FOR INACTIVE INGREDIENTS. Damn the worst kind of stupid is the people that don't know they're stupid.


And that perfectly combed 5,000 graft. Nw6 is the exception. He was a Norwood 6 and they placed his grafts to make it look like full coverage. You got 3,000 grafts just in your hairline. You won't be able to keep the same density of your hair transplant in the future.


Damn dude you legit know nothing of hair loss or hair transplants yet u have one

You literally said " Generic simply isn't regulated the way propecia is."

You can buy plenty of US produced generics. You didn't say "foreign generics".

So a NW6 can get full coverage but not someone with a norwood 5 pattern? I covered about 2/5ths of the balding area in my procedure and have another 5000 grafts left in the bank, + 1500 beard. The thing that disgusts me about you is even when you realise how blatantly wrong you are you never cease talking sh*t.

 

[Crystalclear12]

You literally said " Generic simply isn't regulated the way propecia is."

You can buy plenty of US produced generics. You didn't say "foreign generics".

So a NW6 can get full coverage but not someone with a norwood 5 pattern? I covered about 2/5ths of the balding area in my procedure and have another 5000 grafts left in the bank, + 1500 beard. The thing that disgusts me about you is even when you realise how blatantly wrong you are you never cease talking sh*t.

Unless your transplant is 20gratfs per sq cm, you won't cover your whole head. And 20/cm3 is less than a quarter coverage of a full head. You're dumb. Keep scratching the surface and listening to your hair transplant Doctor.

 

[Crystalclear12]

You have 4000 grafts left, so you'll cover the rest of your hair at about 25 grafts per cm2

 

[Crystalclear12]

@JeanLucBB you dense packed he hairline to a nw1. That's not the front third lol. You used almost half your grafts on ur headband