Retin-A (Good, Bad or Indifferent?)

[Cornholio]

I have been using Retin-A in 5% minoxidil based on the generally accepted but poorly studied belief that Retin-A enhances the effect of low-dose topical minoxidil. http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_treat ... etin_a.cfm

I have noticed that this does seem to produce at least mild inflammation (temporary) which cannot be a good thing. Then I noticed this posted on hairsite.com .... http://www.ehrs.org/conferenceabstracts ... rexard.htm

I understand at least 10% of the words, and while its an invitro study, it does not suggest that retin-a would be good for hair.

Any thoughts regarding risk/benefit of retin-a topical? Thanks.

 

[dead]

I asked Dr Lee about Retinoic Acid (Retin-A) just recently, it was in the context of its use alongside Xandrox (Azelaic acid + Minoxidil) but you may find something of use.

email from Dr Lee: I still don't think it is necessary to use it with Xandrox. It may even cause too much absorption of minoxidil from Xandrox15 because it strips away the superficial dead cells of the strateum corneum which acts as a protective barrier to the lower layers of skin. It was very  important when 2% minoxidil solutions were the only concentrations available.  Now that 5% and higher  concentrations are available, the addition of retinoic acid is not as important. In fact, the undesirable side effects of  retinoic acid use (dryness, redness, flaking, increased sensitivity to sun damage, etc.) may not counterbalance its  'benefits'.  If you have a sensitive scalp or find that your scalp gets sensitive because of it, then you may not want to use it.

 

[Cornholio]

Thanks TynanW... That's what I have, Xanadrox %5 with Retin-A.

Thats kind of what I was beginning to think, regarding inflammation anyway. Since Accutane can cause thinning/sheds, and Retin-A can cause inflammation Im not sure Retin-a would be a good thing long-term.

One think arguing in it's favor was the claim that retin-a independant of minoxidil caused regrowth similar to minoxidil, but that was a small study. If it independantly regrows some hair, that would be worth something, but not at the cost of inflammation.

I only use 5% minoxidil, but am just starting it, so maybe i should stick with that (12.5% at hairline) for now.

 

[Bryan]

One think arguing in it's favor was the claim that retin-a independant of minoxidil caused regrowth similar to minoxidil, but that was a small study. If it independantly regrows some hair, that would be worth something, but not at the cost of inflammation.

Oh, I dunno...you might wanna read that whole Retin-A study before you discount it completely. There are some before-and-after color photos in it, some of which are fairly impressive.

I think words like "inflammation" and "irritation" always come up in the context of Retin-A usage mainly because so many guys go overboard and use it excessively. If you get inflammation or irritation, then YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY USING TOO MUCH. You gotta use some common sense with that powerful drug, and walk a careful line between too much and too little.

Bryan

 

[eliazush]

Hi,

I really think retinoic acid does make the minoxidil more effective and it's important to use even with the concentration of 5% of minoxidil. I agree that 5% is now available (which is higher than 2%) but still, Dr. Lee himslef produces 15% which is higher than 5% then why not to use 5% WITH retinoic acid?? If someone doesn't content with this condition of his hair after a period of using plain minoxidil there is a good reason why to add retinoic acid to the regimen.

Retinoic acid has also other properties than just increasing abosrption of minoxidil: it works on the sebud glands to produce less sebum so it's good for oily hair. We know that sebum itslef has DHT in it. It renews the scalp skin and also encourages the follicle to grow more hairs.

However, if someone suffers from itchy scalp to begin with, or his scalp doesn't tolarate the retinoic acid then it will wiser to leave it and to use palin minoxidil.

 

[Cornholio]

Ok, Ok... I'll keep doing it... I guess in part of my mind I was relieved that I could stop some part of my treatments : ) . The list is long, but Ive taken the "throw the kitchen sink at it" approach, and Retin-a may very well have unique value. I will use it a little less than I have been, however, as a compromise between inflammation and benefits.

 

[thin=depressed]

I just applied some this afternoon and thought how nice the sensation was until I read this post.

 

[dead]

When do you people apply your Retinoic Acid and how much do you use.
I was thinking of using it in the evenings, leaving it on for an hour or two, rinsing it off and then applying some Xandrox 15 ?

What do you think ?

 

[Cornholio]

I put it on in the evening before bedtime and leave it on overnight... (Dr. Lee's xanadrox with retin-a). Initially I woke with some irritation on my forehead, but that is getting a little better. I think Ill just start using a little less and avoid it a day or two if my skin is feeling abused and sensitive.

 

[thin=depressed]

When do you people apply your Retinoic Acid and how much do you use.
I was thinking of using it in the evenings, leaving it on for an hour or two, rinsing it off and then applying some Xandrox 15 ?

What do you think ?

I pat it onto the scalp thinly all over and wait until the whiteness of the cream vanishes due to absorbtion and warmth of the scalp which is 10 min, and then put minoxidil over it. It may retard the minoxidil absorbtion a little but your follicles will see more retin-a this way due to the ppg.

 

[dead]

......It may retard the minoxidil absorbtion a little but your follicles will see more retin-a this way due to the ppg.

I believe Retinoic Acid actually increases absorption of minoxidil (well at least when mixed with minoxidil). Dr Lee even says he now does not routinely recommend Retinoic Acid with his Xandrox because he thinks there may be over absorption issues (of the minoxidil).

Would applying the Retinoic Acid first and letting it dry create a barrier of some kind that would reduce minoxidils access to your scalp ?? I thought this may be the case so that is why I am thinking of giving Retinoic Acid some time by itself then rinsing it off (after an hour or two)

 

[techprof]

tynan, that is what I do. I apply retin-A wait for a hour or so then apply minoxidil. you don't have to rinse before applying minoxidil as all the alcohol/solvent would have evaporated and minoxidil should be able penetrate.

 

[dead]

tynan, that is what I do. I apply retin-A wait for a hour or so then apply minoxidil. you don't have to rinse before applying minoxidil as all the alcohol/solvent would have evaporated and minoxidil should be able penetrate.

Sounds good !

I think I might try a similar method, although I will still rinse my scalp at the end of the 1-2 hour 'Retinoic Acid Bathâ„¢' as the Retinoic Acid should have done it's job and rinsing will only hydrate my scalp for better absorption of the minoxidil.

How many times a week is everyone using 'Retin-A' ?

 

[thin=depressed]

tynan, that is what I do. I apply retin-A wait for a hour or so then apply minoxidil. you don't have to rinse before applying minoxidil as all the alcohol/solvent would have evaporated and minoxidil should be able penetrate.

Sounds good !

I think I might try a similar method, although I will still rinse my scalp at the end of the 1-2 hour 'Retinoic Acid Bathâ„¢' as the Retinoic Acid should have done it's job and rinsing will only hydrate my scalp for better absorption of the minoxidil.

How many times a week is everyone using 'Retin-A' ?

two times a week seems to work well. I had tried three but the scalp tends to get red and inflamed when applyinf min as well.

 

[dead]

two times a week seems to work well. I had tried three but the scalp tends to get red and inflamed when applying min as well.

My scalp has been very good to me !! I have not had irritation from anything now for over a year, I am always reading about tingling from Azelaic Acid, irritation from Retinoic Acid, dry scalp from Nizoral, red scalp from minoxidil, salicylic acid over use causing scalp damgage and so far I have had zero problems!!

...so I might try Retnoic Acid 3-4 times a week and see how I get on .

 

[Cornholio]

...so I might try Retnoic Acid 3-4 times a week and see how I get on .

You might as well... No studies to guide you regarding frequency, but if it feels good you might as well use it more often.

I havent had any problems with minoxidil but the combination of azelaic acid and minoxidil NIGHTLY initially left the effect of a light sunburn (for a couple of hours anyway) each morning. This effect has largely disappeared with time but Im thinking that every other day may be a good schedule for me.

I didnt understand much of the invitro study I posted in the topic... It didnt sound good but I guess the consensus here is that retin-a is a good thing... Ill keep it, because more is better : )

 

[dead]

You might as well... No studies to guide you regarding frequency, but if it feels good you might as well use it more often.

If I get absolutely no inflammation or irritation then I will go for 3-4 times a week.

I havent had any problems with minoxidil but the combination of azelaic acid and minoxidil NIGHTLY initially left the effect of a light sunburn (for a couple of hours anyway) each morning. This effect has largely disappeared with time but Im thinking that every other day may be a good schedule for me.

I have only been on minoxidil/Azelaic Acid (Xandrox 5 + Xandrox 15) for a few days now, so far zero reaction but I need to give my scalp a couple of weeks to see if it likes the new onslaught.

I didnt understand much of the invitro study I posted in the topic... It didnt sound good but I guess the consensus here is that retin-a is a good thing... Ill keep it, because more is better : )

more is always better !!!!

 

[Shinyscalp23]

the first time i used minoxidil mixed with retin-a 2x a day i had no bad side affects at all except when i dyed my hair and forgot it was on there and burned the f*** out of myself--this time im noticing its extemely irritating, it gives you a red scalp, it makes you itch, it makes you burn, but you know what? id never give it up until im ready to accept further hair loss-my hair still looks bad but it still hasnt looked this good in a looooooooooooong time and its only been 4 and a half months--NO PAIN NO GAIN!lol