Reasons why a person would NOT respond to finasteride ?

[misterium]

If you could give me a few reasons, you don't have to get overly complex just a good overview, of why some people don't respond to finasteride use.. it would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[juststarting]

Simple, male pattern baldness is not caused 100% by DHT, but rather a variety of factors still to be determined. Its a big cause, but hardly the only one...

 

[pbz]

If you have low DHT-levels, my guess is that the male pattern baldness is triggered by something else, and that you won't respond very well to DHT-blockers.

I think that many of those who experience side effects on Finasteride have low DHT-levels to begin with, and that reducing them even more invokes the sides.

But then again, I've gone more than 30hrs without sleep now, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

 

[chewbaca]

If you have low DHT-levels, my guess is that the male pattern baldness is triggered by something else, and that you won't respond very well to DHT-blockers.

I think that many of those who experience side effects on Finasteride have low DHT-levels to begin with, and that reducing them even more invokes the sides.

But then again, I've gone more than 30hrs without sleep now, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

Is this a good way to gauge DHT levels?..i didnt expereince any serious sides only mild during initial use....

 

[Petchsky]

I don't think the auto immune response can be ignored.

 

[pbz]

If you have low DHT-levels, my guess is that the male pattern baldness is triggered by something else, and that you won't respond very well to DHT-blockers.

I think that many of those who experience side effects on Finasteride have low DHT-levels to begin with, and that reducing them even more invokes the sides.

But then again, I've gone more than 30hrs without sleep now, so you probably shouldn't listen to me.

Is this a good way to gauge DHT levels?..i didnt expereince any serious sides only mild during initial use....

It could be. If you don't have any sides it could be a sign of high DHT-levels, and therefore an indication of that the treatment you've chosen may be right for you. But it's only my guess.

 

[misterium]

zero sides here, i think i'm a good responder at almost 9 months so far.

 

[nervx]

Couldn't you just get a blood test to see how high your DHT levels are?

 

[Bismarck]

Couldn't you just get a blood test to see how high your DHT levels are?

Of course. Note that the range considered to be "normal" is huge.

 

[socks]

If you could give me a few reasons, you don't have to get overly complex just a good overview, of why some people don't respond to finasteride use..

Misterium,

Most guys get caught up with "DHT Levels" and forget about the most important piece of the puzzle:

Your hair follicle's sensitivity to DHT. Basically, Free roaming testosterone infuses into hair follicles cells from the bloodstream. The 5ar enzyme then converts the testosterone into DHT. The DHT (along with any other androgen) binds to the androgen receptor which then signals the cell nucleus of the presents of androgens. The cell nucleus then "expresses" certain genetic code that has a negative effect on the growth of the hair follicle; The hair follicle atrophies and, eventually, dies permanently.


Now the more "sensitive" your hair follicle cells are (greater # of androgen receptors and/or increased cell nucleus's response thereof) the less DHT needed to cause problems. So, if you got really sensitive hair follicle cells to DHT the 15% of Type II 5ar that Finasteride doesnt block may be enough to continue causing male pattern baldness.

 

[pbz]

And if your follicles are sensitive to DHT but the DHT-levels in your body are low or normal, it could mean that your risk of sides would be slightly higher as you're reducing your DHT-levels below normal.

Once again - it's only a guess and shouldn't be taken too serious.

 

[chewbaca]

If you could give me a few reasons, you don't have to get overly complex just a good overview, of why some people don't respond to finasteride use..

Misterium,

Most guys get caught up with "DHT Levels" and forget about the most important piece of the puzzle:

Your hair follicle's sensitivity to DHT. Basically, Free roaming testosterone infuses into hair follicles cells from the bloodstream. The 5ar enzyme then converts the testosterone into DHT. The DHT (along with any other androgen) binds to the androgen receptor which then signals the cell nucleus of the presents of androgens. The cell nucleus then "expresses" certain genetic code that has a negative effect on the growth of the hair follicle; The hair follicle atrophies and, eventually, dies permanently.


Now the more "sensitive" your hair follicle cells are (greater # of androgen receptors and/or increased cell nucleus's response thereof) the less DHT needed to cause problems. So, if you got really sensitive hair follicle cells to DHT the 15% of Type II 5ar that Finasteride doesnt block may be enough to continue causing male pattern baldness.

So dutasteride will be a better choice for these people? and also when one ages the sensivitiy to DHT goes up?

 

[socks]

Chewbaca,

Dutasteride does indeed do a better job then Finasteride, in general, for overall hair counts/weights. You can check out This Study for some more info on the difference.

However, be aware that DHT is not an evil androgen that exists only to destroy your hair! DHT is an important androgen that shouldnt be fully inhibited "just because". You can check out This Link for more info.


However, to directly answer your question, if you are one of those guys who is really sensitive to DHT then Dutasteride may be a better route in so far as saving more hair is concerned. Even with Dutasteride there will still be DHT that will "get through"... Furthermore, with greater amounts of 5ar being inhibited you may get a spike in testosterone levels due to it not being converted into DHT... In most instances you would probably want to trade an increase testosterone levels for less DHT with something like Finasteride... However, with Dutasteride there may be a road bump.

Type II 5ar is the main culprit in male pattern baldness not Type I. In fact Merck tried a specific Type I 5ar inhibitor (MK386) which had NO EFFECT OF male pattern baldness. So, by inhibiting the Type I 5ar you are freeing up more testosterone without reducing DHT where it matters.... Remember, testosterone is an androgen as well as DHT; Just not as potent.



I could go on and on but the bottom line is this:

If you're really sensitive to DHT you might want to add a potent topical routine in addition to Finasteride and only use Dutasteride as a last resort.

This is only my non-medical opinion however

 

[Chris Johnson]

Very interesting posts socks.

 

[chewbaca]

when one ages the sensivitiy to DHT goes up?

 

[Fallout Boy]

haha chewbaca .. that made me laugh. but I cant answer your question..sorry

anyways are there any studies done on spironolactone that proves it does indeed block dht topically????

 

[chewbaca]

:hairy:

 

[socks]

haha chewbaca .. that made me laugh. but I cant answer your question..sorry

anyways are there any studies done on spironolactone that proves it does indeed block dht topically????

Block DHT locally?! You mean inhibit the 5ar?

No, spironolactone is not a 5ar inhibitor as much as it is an androgen receptor blocker..

 

[socks]

when one ages the sensivitiy to DHT goes up?

Good question. I personally dont know.