Propecia and spironolactone Combination

[doubleplay]

I have been using finasteride the past 6 months and after poor results so far I decided to add 2%spironolactone from Gen Hair. I just recieved the product today. Most of the people here are using spironolactone as an alternative to finasteride, and I am looking for folks who use both and their results.

 

[ShedMaster]

what type of results are you looking for?

What have you experienced the last 6 months of using both?



I only use finasteride, but I too have been interesting in adding spironolactone or switching to spironolactone at some point in the future.

 

[doubleplay]

check my regimen. Also, for those who use spironolactone, how many "full squirts" do you typically do per application?

 

[Radio]

I use both.

Been a few months, I expect that because both are DHT inhibitors and not growth stimulants, it will take a very long time (if at all) to notice any regrowth.

I think Bryan posted here that if you chop 'the family jewels' off (castration) and produce zero DHT, you still are unlikey to grow much hair back.

So obviously I use minoxidil along side spironolactone and finasteride.

 

[doubleplay]

well, Im not looking to regrow a ton of hair. I'm diffuse, and if I had about 10-15% more density, (in the right places of course) my loss would be all but undetectable. That and maintenance of existing is my goal. IS that unrealistic with this regimen?

 

[Radio]

10% is the very top of the range you should expect from propecia, spironolactone may push you past that.

Graph is around 600k, folk on dial up will have to wait 1-2 minutes for it to start aninimating.

This graph is plotted from actual trial data.

Hair weight increases are represented by an increase in plot line thickness, these percentage changes have been doubled throughout this graph as a change from 100% to 124% (in the case of 2% minoxidil at 96 weeks) was just too subtle as to carry any meaning, so the 24% increased hair weight for 2% minoxidil @ week 96 is represented by a 48% thicker plot line.

The shape given to the evolving plot lines is pure conjecture, I have just smoothed out (using weighted splines) the linear plots generated by the known data points (the small circles), also the start point is ramped in by an arbitrary amount.


Simplified minoxidil/finasteride combinationefficacy graph.

 

[Guest]

I appreciate well done information visualisation
and therefore found your last post a pleasant surprise
to the ordinary.

Please continue

 

[doubleplay]

good sh*t on the chart. it's scary to see how bad and fast you fall off when you drop the minoxidil, which is the main reason I'm hesitant to pick it up in the first place and be enslaved to it.

How many people were used in this trial???

 

[Radio]

good $#iT on the chart. it's scary to see how bad and fast you fall off when you drop the minoxidil

The bottom chart is not based on trial data (the top chart is), it is a relationship chart showing the efficacy of each product only in relation to the others.

So read no actual data or scale of data from it, it simply shows that minoxidil is initially (in the majority of people) more effective in increasing hair count than finasteride, but that finasteride is likely (in the majority of people) to maintain hair count over the longer term, don't infer from this graph that minoxidil is twice or thrice or four times more effective at two years, just that it likely to be more effective.

If you are worried about how fast you 'fall off' after cessation of minoxidil use you need to do more research, this graph does not show how fast, just that you are likely to initially dip below the position you would have been had you not used minoxidil. I have illustrated it over 18 months it may be 4 weeks or 4 years.

which is the main reason I'm hesitant to pick it up in the first place and be enslaved to it.

Your view confuses me ?

You seem to see that if you stop its use you will lose the hair gained on minoxidil, but can you not also see that you return to where you would be without minoxidil ? Did you expect to use minoxidil and stop and keep that hair for ever ? (this is normally know as surgery).

If you have gained no hair on minoxidil, then you will lose no hair if you stop, so no worry there.

If you have gained a significant amount of hair, and have a lot to lose if you stop, then why would you stop?

I find it hard to understand that you can look at the bottom graph and conclude (for whatever reasons) that you would be better off following the blue line rather than any of the other options because you would have a long way to drop to the blue line if you stopped using the medications.

I have followed this same logic and decided not to use soap or to wash because if I stop washing I will quickly (over just a few days) become dirty and I do not want to be enslaved to washing with soap.

 

[doubleplay]

good $#iT on the chart. it's scary to see how bad and fast you fall off when you drop the minoxidil

The bottom chart is not based on trial data (the top chart is), it is a relationship chart showing the efficacy of each product only in relation to the others.

So read no actual data or scale of data from it, it simply shows that minoxidil is initially (in the majority of people) more effective in increasing hair count than finasteride, but that finasteride is likely (in the majority of people) to maintain hair count over the longer term, don't infer from this graph that minoxidil is twice or thrice or four times more effective at two years, just that it likely to be more effective.

If you are worried about how fast you 'fall off' after cessation of minoxidil use you need to do more research, this graph does not show how fast, just that you are likely to initially dip below the position you would have been had you not used minoxidil. I have illustrated it over 18 months it may be 4 weeks or 4 years.

which is the main reason I'm hesitant to pick it up in the first place and be enslaved to it.

Your view confuses me ?

You seem to see that if you stop its use you will lose the hair gained on minoxidil, but can you not also see that you return to where you would be without minoxidil ? Did you expect to use minoxidil and stop and keep that hair for ever ? (this is normally know as surgery).

If you have gained no hair on minoxidil, then you will lose no hair if you stop, so no worry there.

If you have gained a significant amount of hair, and have a lot to lose if you stop, then why would you stop?

I find it hard to understand that you can look at the bottom graph and conclude (for whatever reasons) that you would be better off following the blue line rather than any of the other options because you would have a long way to drop to the blue line if you stopped using the medications.

I have followed this same logic and decided not to use soap or to wash because if I stop washing I will quickly (over just a few days) become dirty and I do not want to be enslaved to washing with soap.

lol you dug too deep into it bro. The rapid loss of hair after the drop of minoxidil as indicated by the chart is what scared me. It's one thing to gradually lose my hair over time, but to lose such a huge portion in such a short amount of time is something I dont care to deal with psychologically. I also want to see what finasteride and spironolactone come up with for a year before considering it because if I do get whats typical I would be content for a few extra years.

 

[Radio]

lol you dug too deep into it bro.

It would appear you have not dug deep enough

The rapid loss of hair after the drop of minoxidil as indicated by the chart is what scared me.

Doubleplay, I will say this one last time as it does not seem to be going in.

The bottom chart shows only the relationship between the medications, read no actual vaule from this chart this is the very reason that I put no value readings up the left hand side of the chart.

In this chart we see a fall when you stop minoxidil, I have plotted it over 18 months, but the values are arbitary I could have easily plotted it over 48 months with a much shallower falloff.

I made the figures up, it is illustrative

All you can safely read is that there is likely to be a reduction in hair count after stopping minoxidil.

It's one thing to gradually lose my hair over time, but to lose such a huge portion in such a short amount of time is something I dont care to deal with psychologically.

Why, I ask, would you anyone stop using minoxidil if it was growing them this "huge portion" of hair ?

When I made this graph (along with input from some of the more well informed members of this forum) it was people like you who worried me, as somewhere along the line I knew someone would read it as a literal representation.