Propecia and childbirth

BallsDeep

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Hi,

To all those currently using propecia (or other finasteride products). Before I start using, does it matter if you are on propecia with your wife/partner, I know it's bad for the unborn child if she touches the product after conception. . . . . . but if she gets pregnant from you, and you are on propecia, is the unborn in danger because she is impregnated by a man on finasteride?

Cheers guys.
 

Hoppi

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So, we don't think there is any need for concern at all? DHT inhibition in males at young ages (including foetal ages! :) ) would be bad, but maybe it isn't really transferred in sperm, and if it was like, it would only last for a few days before it wore off anyway, so I would imagine the zygote would still be too small.
 

Shma

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Just wondering: Is it true that child expecting fathers were removed from the FDA propecia study?
 

OverMachoGrande

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Hoppi said:
So, we don't think there is any need for concern at all?


No, not with conception Hoppi. The real concern is that broken or crushed tablets ARE NOT handled by women expecting or breastfeeding.


Shma said:
Just wondering: Is it true that child expecting fathers were removed from the FDA propecia study?


Good question!! Unfortunately I do not know the answer to that but would like to know as well.
 

Mew

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Just wondering: Is it true that child expecting fathers were removed from the FDA propecia study?

Good question!! Unfortunately I do not know the answer to that but would like to know as well.

Ask and you shall receive.

-------

2010 - Swedish Medical Agency - Package Leaflet Information for User, Propecia 1mg
http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/SPC_PIL/ ... %20ENG.Doctor


Under "Special Warnings and Precautions for Use ", pg. 2, section 4.4:

"Long-term data on fertility in humans are lacking, and specific studies in subfertile men have not been conducted. The male patients who were planning to father a child were initially excluded from clinical trials. Although, animal studies did not show relevant negative effects on fertility, spontaneous reports of infertility and /or poor seminal quality were received post-marketing..." "
 

Shma

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Thanks Mew. Unfortunately nobody seems to care about this.

How do you explain the decrease in semen quality/quantity? lack of dht? high estrogen? both?
 

Mew

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Thanks Mew. Unfortunately nobody seems to care about this.

Yes, sad really. Hair is obviously more important than health for many. I also thought the same way, at one point.

How do you explain the decrease in semen quality/quantity? lack of dht? high estrogen? both?

DHT plays a vital role in spermatogenesis.

DHT also plays a vital role in prostate and seminal vesicle structure maintenance and function. Finasteride atrophies and involutes (loss of function) both organs, and decreased seminal quality and output is the result.
 

zeroheat

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People don't care because Mew only mentions "reported cases" and "unproven". They hold ZERO weight. Give me something tangible from "controlled scientific experiment" and you have my attention. I've seen many people father multiple children while on finasteride, and that's enough for most of us.
 

Mew

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People don't care because Mew only mentions "reported cases" and "unproven". They hold ZERO weight. Give me something tangible from "controlled scientific experiment" and you have my attention. I've seen many people father multiple children while on finasteride, and that's enough for most of us.

People DO care, YOU personally don't.

The info posted comes straight from the Swedish Medical Agency which is responsible for regulating Finasteride in Europe.

If what THEY have stated is of no concern to you, then oh well -- carry on with your use of Finasteride. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and your attempt to downplay the risks comes off looking like a complete Merck shill, when confronted with officially published factual information.

Anecdotes like "I've seen many people father multiple children while on finasteride" means absolutely nothing -- that's your personal opinion, not fact. What the Swedish MPA published IS fact.

So, get your "facts" straight instead of reacting emotionally just because you don't like the truth, and re-read what I posted. The fact they mention men planning to father children were excluded from the clinical trials wouldn't have been published if it wasn't true, that's for damn sure, since it can affect people's judgement and purchase of the drug (something you as a person and Merck as a corporation are very likely against).
 

zeroheat

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lol, I'm not reacting emotionally.. why would I? :innocent:

There's no "scientific facts" from your posts, and I've seen many of your posts. I've yet to see ONE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACT from you. All you do is post "reported cases of -insert negative thing here-". People can report many things, but none of them are proven unless SCIENTIFICALLY TESTED.

People fathering multiple children while on finasteride is a living proof. How is this my "opinion"? lol? What you posted is "reports of infertility". Reports are NOT facts. The only fact in your post is "people who were planning to father a child were excluded from study". So what? It has not been tested and it remains UNKNOWN.

"There were no significant effects of 1 mg. finasteride on sperm concentration, total sperm per ejaculate, sperm motility or morphology. Ejaculate volume in subjects on finasteride decreased 0.3 ml. (-11%) compared to a decrease of 0.2 ml. (-8%) for placebo, with a median between treatment group difference of -0.03 ml. (1%, 90% confidence interval -10.4 to 13.1, p = 0.915)."
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-remedy ... _sperm.cfm
This is called SCIENTIFIC FACT. What you posted is, is NOT.
I'm a stats major, and p-value of 0.915/90% CI/randomization/replication is pretty darn convincing. This is a well designed scientific study. "Reported cases" are NOT. Why? because they are filled with personal bias and placebo.

Please stop using big bold red letters to scare away people. None of your "FACTS" are backed up by science. M.D.'s have credibility, YOU don't. Your scare tactics will continue to get ignored by majority of this board.
 

timbo

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Mew said:
Anecdotes like "I've seen many people father multiple children while on finasteride" means absolutely nothing -- that's your personal opinion, not fact. What the Swedish MPA published IS fact.

The only scary "facts" that the Swedish Medical Products Agency has put out are...

- Permanent sexual side-effects reported in post-marketing use.

- Some infertility cases reported in post marketing use.

...It's really just a fancy way of saying: "People have called us and written a bunch of emails saying that finasteride causes permanent side-effects, but we don't want to investigate it or use any official medical data to come up with a definite conclusion."
 

zeroheat

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timbo said:
Mew said:
Anecdotes like "I've seen many people father multiple children while on finasteride" means absolutely nothing -- that's your personal opinion, not fact. What the Swedish MPA published IS fact.

The only scary "facts" that the Swedish Medical Products Agency has put out are...

- Permanent sexual side-effects reported in post-marketing use.

- Some infertility cases reported in post marketing use.

...It's really just a fancy way of saying: "People have called us and written a bunch of emails saying that finasteride causes permanent side-effects, but we don't want to investigate it or use any official medical data to come up with a definite conclusion."
.. and those are "facts" to Mew, but real people producing real children in real life are personal opinions. lol, go figure. I think it's pretty safe to ignore Mew and his big bold red capital letters.
 

OverMachoGrande

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Thank you Mew for answering the question about the studies involving Fathers that were expecting as it was indeed a good question.

As far as conceiving children while on finasteride I can only state that I do indeed have 2 healthy daughters and a new one on the way so it did not hinder me in that way. I also know at least 15 guys on finasteride and they all did conceive children as well. I guess everyone is different and people do react different to various meds. Carry on guys.
 

Mew

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What you posted is "reports of infertility". Reports are NOT facts. The only fact in your post is "people who were planning to father a child were excluded from study". So what? It has not been tested and it remains UNKNOWN.

Look, I realize there are some mentions of "reports of infertility have been received post marketing" and "reports of persistent erectile dysfunction have been received post marketing" etc. For many, those alone will be of concern.

However, the original point of that post, and why I highlighted it in RED, was the FACT that "male patients who were planning to father a child were initially excluded from clinical trials". You and I both agree on that point, and that is what the original 2 posters had requested clarification on.

So, the question has been answered, yet you still seem to have taken issue with it based on your initial response claiming "People don't care because Mew only mentions "reported cases" and "unproven". They hold ZERO weight". Again, what I highlighted in red is FACT, in response to a specific question asked by the previous posters. It seems you took issue with that, despite it being truth, yet later agree that it is in fact, a fact.

Either way your initial response comes off completely uninformed and is simply mudslinging opinion.

I've yet to see ONE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACT from you.

For me, the FACT that these adverse events are even being published by the agency is enough to be of concern. For you, obviously not so much. Either way, I'm just the messenger, the agencies are the ones publishing this information so you are free to evaluate it according to your own criteria.

They've also now listed male breast cancer as an official potential outcome from use. Are you going to disagree with every single new adverse event they add to the label based on the skewed Merck/FDA trials from 1997?

I'll bet 99.9% you will -- and that's your perogative. For those who choose to be informed, no matter how "rare" the risk, such information will help them in making a decision about wether to take the medication or not.

In the end, the information is out there and people are free to ignore it if they want, in their quest to save hair.


Thank you Mew for answering the question about the studies involving Fathers that were expecting as it was indeed a good question.

You're welcome, hope the information is of use to some people.
 

zeroheat

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Sigh.. back to square one. Mew, can you comment on the scientific study I quoted above, or are you going to continue to ignore them (as usual) and keep going back to these "reports" from random people? For real. Can't you see it? really?

No one is risking their health to save their hair. If propecia is that deadly, I'm quitting immediately and buzzing my head. You have to prove it to me though, and so far you've failed miserably.

Please reply if you have something scientific. We don't need random reports. Thanks.
 

Mew

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Mew, can you comment on the scientific study I quoted above, or are you going to continue to ignore them (as usual)


Sure thing.

Your "study" is in fact a sham, inherently-biased piece of marketing material funded by Merck, designed to downplay the risks of the drug as much as possible.

This is especially true considering KEITH D KAUFMAN -- an MD employed by Merck to push their agenda in the FDA clinical trials and in various "studies" like the one you quoted -- is one of the study authors, amongst numerous other pharma companies.

In other words, the study you quoted is not objective -- it's worthless due to inherent conflict of interest and bias.


From your "study":

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve ... 4705682705

"Conclusions
Treatment with 1 mg. finasteride daily for 48 weeks did not affect spermatogenesis or semen production in young men."

---

"Financial support and/or other relationship with Merck & Co.

Financial support and/or other relationship with Pfizer and Vivus.

Financial support and/or other relationship with Schering, TAP, Senetek, ALZA and Roche.

Financial support and/or other relationship with Influence and American Medical Systems.

Supported by Merck & Co., Inc., Rahway, New Jersey."

--------

Here's some info for you to chew on that's NOT from Merck.

viewtopic.php?p=463430#p463430

Also, Discussion section of this paper is interesting, especially pg 286. http://www.scielo.br/pdf/acb/v23n3/12.pdf

Anyway if you're going to quote a study as the basis for your argument, next time try picking one that isn't backed by Merck, since it's in their best interest to downplay the risks of their own drug in order to convince consumers of safety, in order to generate sales.

I wish you well with your Finasteride usage.
 
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