Non-Responder Percentage

[bombscience]

I make videos and multimedia, i dont do math.

Could someone please tell me by combining the 83% percent of people who have no visible hair loss after one year of Propecia with the 69% of people who regrow hair with minoxidil, what percenatage of the population will respond to a combination of the two drugs?

Thanks.

 

[TEST SUBJECT#1]

I make videos and multimedia, i dont do math.

Could someone please tell me by combining the 83% percent of people who have no visible hair loss after one year of Propecia with the 69% of people who regrow hair with minoxidil, what percenatage of the population will respond to a combination of the two drugs?

Thanks.

I think its 100% - 83% = 17%
100% - 69% = 31%
-----
17%+31%=48%
100% - 48%= 52%


the total number of people that respond to both drugs is 52%.

 

[bombscience]

Hrmm.. ok that's cool, what about the precentage that will respond to one or the other?

 

[TEST SUBJECT#1]

Hrmm.. ok that's cool, what about the precentage that will respond to one or the other?

you already have that number...83% respond to propecia and 69% respond to Rogaine. Are you surethats what you wanted to ask?

 

[bombscience]

Basically, I'm curious about what percentage *won't* respond to either medication. So if 31% or people don't respond to minoxidil 5%, and 17% don't respond to Propecia what percentage don't respond to either?

Yeah yeah, i know i should have listened more when they covered Venn diagrams.

 

[HairlossTalk]

There's another factor here that doing math alone wont help. Nobody has ever studied whether Rogaine works BETTER with the help of Propecia, or vice versa, potentially increasing the % of responders over either one used alone.

Bottom line is we can't answer this question with any real facts, but if anyone is well versed in probability, I am sure there is a standard way of determining a % when you combine two %'s.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[bombscience]

Yeah that's what i'm looking for.... the statistical probability, that when 17% of people dont like one thing, and 31% of the same people dont like another thing... what % dont like both?

 

[flux]

That cant be figured out in the percentages, as its a matter of unknown factors. To answer that question there would need to be a study that actually tried each treatment on the same subjects at different times.

 

[bombscience]

Not that this really makes any sense but here are some figures from minoxidil.com as written by Dr. Lee:

What Can Be Expected from Treatment?


The average patient will see a positive response to treatment within 4 to 6 months. Using a combination of 5% minoxidil and a drug to effectively reduce scalp DHT (e.g. 5% Minoxidil and 5% spironolactine, finasteride or Xandrox alone) stops any further loss and regrows hair in 83% of patients with male pattern baldness. Approximately 70% of patients will see the growth of cosmetically acceptable hair. Of these patients, 50% can expect a restoration of frontal hair. An additional 13% of patients report that male pattern baldness has been stabilized, although appreciable new hair growth is not seen. The remaining 17% may continue to lose hair, but the rate of progression of male pattern baldness is slowed considerably.

 

[HairlossTalk]

At best, he's making educated guesses.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[TEST SUBJECT#1]

That cant be figured out in the percentages, as its a matter of unknown factors. To answer that question there would need to be a study that actually tried each treatment on the same subjects at different times.

You took the words outta my mouth.

If you really wanted to know the answer, I guess you could take the amount of guys who come on this web site and take both drugs and compare how many people still complain about losing hair and how many say that they recognize a difference.

Actually, that probably wouldnt be a good idea as most guys who come here usually are complaining instead of praising and that'll just rob you of any motivation to contiue therapy. :lol:

 

[douggie]

This question cannot be answered via statistics since the two medications work over different channels. If they were both DHT inhibitors you could do it, but since they are not you can't really compare them. You would also have to have a firm answer as to the exact cause of hair loss, but unfortunately that is not known.

 

[bombscience]

I think people misunderstand me.

Let me rephrase the question. I'm looking for an answer that based on probability, and I know I've seen this calculation done before:

If 17% of people dont like oranges, and %31 of people dont like apples, what percentage of the population dont like oranges OR apples.

I'm not looking for data that would take into account how effective one product is when you are on another, i'm just looking for a ballpark figure of how likely a person is to respond to one or the other; minoxidil or finasteride.

 

[flux]

Ok, if the reasons these treatments were unsuccessful were totally unrelated, or that the overlapping treatments didn't really effect each-other (I think propecia probably gives minoxidil better odds),.

If all the non-responders from minoxidil had the same average success rate from propecia, the problem isn't that difficult

So if we take these numbers; 31% of minoxidil users & 17% of finasteride users are unsuccessful.

Then 17% of the 31, or 31% of 17, or 5.27% will be unsuccessful in both.

I wouldn't really be concentrating on these numbers; comparing yourself to others, especially when you're having a rough go, cant make things any easier, can it? You need to get your mind off your hair, bro. I know its not that easy. If you ever want someone to vent to over a frosty one, hit me up. I'd be glad to buy you a round.

 

[Guest]

Bomb, how is your hair holding up right now man? Im just wondering how you are doing. Is your hair recovering from the allergic reaction you had to the minoxidil 5%?

 

[bombscience]

Flux,

Thanks for the offer man, I might take you up on that.

YG,

Not really that great. After a brief period where I didn't lose much hair at all, I am back to losing a great deal of hair. My scalp is the healthiest since I've started treatments and I'm not using nizoral. I'll be posting pictures after wednesday when I get my hair cut.