Italian Hairloss Formula Alternative

[Joseph Lloyd]

Having read the italian hairloss thread, it has definitely caused a lot of excitement but with much of the formula being open to analysis, surely somebody out there has already decided to create a product with similar ingredients given the VERY long delay in releasing it?

If so, can anyone share because this is one that fits the bill for me to trial.

 

[Keisi92]

If you know italian you can ask in the ieson forums, they are already trying it i think.

 

[buckthorn]

That's it. I am f*****g killing myself. Thanks man.

 

[Jonnyyy]

That's it. I am f*****g killing myself. Thanks man.

Whaaaaat? Don't do it man there's treatments coming soon, just get on finasteride or something even if it gives you shitty side effects, you should only have to use it for a few years at most.

 

[Joseph Lloyd]

If you know italian you can ask in the ieson forums, they are already trying it i think.

I’m afraid my Italian is limited to mamma mia and ciao

When you say they are trying it, do you know what is being tried? The original formula? A generic ripoff version of it?

 

[christ0pher m0ltisanti]

About time too... that someone was interested in the thing. Okay, you've convinced me now contact someone in pvt.

 

[Keisi92]

I’m afraid my Italian is limited to mamma mia and ciao

When you say they are trying it, do you know what is being tried? The original formula? A generic ripoff version of it?

From what I have gathered from the italian forums (note I haven't read the whole threads, one is 50 pages long) there have been some groups who have tried to reproduce the lotion, there have been either 2 or 3 versions of the lotion they have tried. The lotion has equol and dgla so the ingridients have been known for quite some time, there is no guarantee though that their lotion is exactly the same as brotzus. A group had it made by a lab who guaranteed that they followed the patent word for word according to them. The other version is homemade I think. Some had problems with the lotion, apparently it needed to stay in the freezer or it could get ruined, they had problems with conservation.

A lot of them started it and quit half way for different reasons, some bought it, but didn't even start in fear, some bought too little (a months worth) so they couldn't really do a proper experiment. Some quit half way , a guy quit because the consistency of the lotion was very bad and not even shampoo could wash it. Some guys reported side effects and quit althrough nobody knows if they actually had them or if it was simple suggestion. Also having problems with finding ingredients and other stuff a lot of people have went on and off with it I think. On one group of 30 people only 10 went to at least 3 months of using it. Most reported good gains, but again there is little photo proof of this.

Sides reported were the usual, low libido, watery sperm, weaker erections.

To sum it up nobody knows sh*t, so for the info we have it's better to wait and hope like usual.

 

[christ0pher m0ltisanti]

I tried to contact buckthorn kindly, but he replied abruptly. However, I belong to the Cavallopazzo group, although it would be correct to say that Cavallopazzo is part of our group. Keisi92 summarized the situation well. These are the situations in italy.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

From what I have gathered from the italian forums (note I haven't read the whole threads, one is 50 pages long) there have been some groups who have tried to reproduce the lotion, there have been either 2 or 3 versions of the lotion they have tried. The lotion has equol and dgla so the ingridients have been known for quite some time, there is no guarantee though that their lotion is exactly the same as brotzus. A group had it made by a lab who guaranteed that they followed the patent word for word according to them. The other version is homemade I think. Some had problems with the lotion, apparently it needed to stay in the freezer or it could get ruined, they had problems with conservation.

A lot of them started it and quit half way for different reasons, some bought it, but didn't even start in fear, some bought too little (a months worth) so they couldn't really do a proper experiment. Some quit half way , a guy quit because the consistency of the lotion was very bad and not even shampoo could wash it. Some guys reported side effects and quit althrough nobody knows if they actually had them or if it was simple suggestion. Also having problems with finding ingredients and other stuff a lot of people have went on and off with it I think. On one group of 30 people only 10 went to at least 3 months of using it. Most reported good gains, but again there is little photo proof of this.

Sides reported were the usual, low libido, watery sperm, weaker erections.

To sum it up nobody knows sh*t, so for the info we have it's better to wait and hope like usual.

Wait...Brotzu will have those shitty finasteride sides too ? Fuckin' hell i didn't know about it

In an interview of Brotzu himself, he mentionned no sides effects, even women can use it, no 5AR1 or whatsoever, how did they even get those sides ?

 

[ZZmop]

Wait...Brotzu will have those shitty finasteride sides too ? Fuckin' hell i didn't know about it

In an interview of Brotzu himself, he mentionned no sides effects, even women can use it, no 5AR1 or whatsoever, how did they even get those sides ?

Some/all of those guys could be on finasteride too. If none of them are then that is troubling to hear.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Some/all of those guys could be on finasteride too. If none of them are then that is troubling to hear.

My bad, seems like sides "could" be the same after all

Here is the interview i was talking about : https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/the-big-bad-awesome-brotzu-lotion-faq.100452/

History repeats itself

 

[CharAblaze]

My bad, seems like sides "could" be the same after all

Here is the interview i was talking about : https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/the-big-bad-awesome-brotzu-lotion-faq.100452/

History repeats itself

I wouldn't trust custom labs and their products much, they may be deceiving their clients.
https://bellicapelliforum.com/en/interview/exclusive-interview-with-dr-brotzu-for-bellicapelli/
Brotzu: There were no side effects.

Replicated lotions don't have liposomes, somebody mentioned that they are important for it not to go systematic.

Why would he be testing this on children if it had heavy sides?

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

i'm more concern about this Brotzu ingredient actually

Q: What more do we know about s-equol?

A: S-equol or (S)-(–)-4',7-isoflavandiol is metabolized by human intestinal bacteria from the soy isoflavone daidzein in ~50% of Asians and ~30% of Caucasians. It is an agonist of the estrogen beta receptor, and it binds to DHT which neutralizes the molecule. WebMD reveals that there is positive evidence for equol yielding benefits for postmenopausal symptoms, metabolic syndrome, osteoporosis, breast cancer, diabetes, wrinkled skin, prostate cancer, heart disease and high cholesterol.

It is also currently under research for development as BPH treatment, just like Proscar (Finasteride) originally was.

I guess we will have to wait for final ingredients, but s-equol, if it goes systemic, can cause that kind of sides

 

[Joseph Lloyd]

If there are potential negatives with respect to libido and drop in testosterone levels etc, then that is definitely a big concern. Did anyone do any bloodwork while running the Italian homebrew options cos that would be interesting (for that matter is there any bloodwork from brotzu)?

 

[Joseph Lloyd]

Bumping myself on this one...

 

[Janko]

You ask questions about lotion we know almost zero about. The italian users of home made lotion, that claim it has sides, but I saw: 1)no actual picture of laboratory test of their lotion,
2)no actual picture of progress with the lotion.
But Dr. Brotzu said, that it has no sides because of the liposomal delivery.
BTW:
To date, the evidenced primary mechanism of action of this antioxidant is to activate estrogen receptor-β (ER-β), which in turn enhances the expression of antioxidant enzymes and inhibits the expression of snail, a transcription factor that regulates keratinocyte cell proliferation and migration.88 A recent study showed that equol can influence expression of skin genes and proteins (i.e., increased collagen I and III, elastin, and TIMPs levels; decreased MMPs gene expression) using human monolayer fibroblast and three-dimensional organotypic cultures (Farid Menaa*, ... Jacques Tréton‡, in Polyphenols in Human Health and Disease, 2014)

So equol activate estrogen receptor. If you deliver with liposomes directly to the cells in the head, then it will activate Es but won´t go systematical.

 

[Jonnyyy]

You ask questions about lotion we know almost zero about. The italian users of home made lotion, that claim it has sides, but I saw: 1)no actual picture of laboratory test of their lotion,
2)no actual picture of progress with the lotion.
But Dr. Brotzu said, that it has no sides because of the liposomal delivery.
BTW:
To date, the evidenced primary mechanism of action of this antioxidant is to activate estrogen receptor-β (ER-β), which in turn enhances the expression of antioxidant enzymes and inhibits the expression of snail, a transcription factor that regulates keratinocyte cell proliferation and migration.88 A recent study showed that equol can influence expression of skin genes and proteins (i.e., increased collagen I and III, elastin, and TIMPs levels; decreased MMPs gene expression) using human monolayer fibroblast and three-dimensional organotypic cultures (Farid Menaa*, ... Jacques Tréton‡, in Polyphenols in Human Health and Disease, 2014)

So equol activate estrogen receptor. If you deliver with liposomes directly to the cells in the head, then it will activate Es but won´t go systematical.

So how effective is this mechanism against hairloss? Do you know?

 

[UberBaldaten]

Wait...Brotzu will have those shitty finasteride sides too ? Fuckin' hell i didn't know about it

In an interview of Brotzu himself, he mentionned no sides effects, even women can use it, no 5AR1 or whatsoever, how did they even get those sides ?

No he won't. I don't see how will a lotion created of few chemicals extracted from plants cause massive side effects. Just look at erectile dysfunction statistics.
I also remember of a study where they informed patients about finasteride and sex sides and they skyrocketed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17655657

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

No he won't. I don't see how will a lotion created of few chemicals extracted from plants cause massive side effects. Just look at erectile dysfunction statistics.
I also remember of a study where they informed patients about finasteride and sex sides and they skyrocketed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17655657

They are plenty of plant extracted chemicals that can do a lot of damage to the human body at a very low dose, even death, so yeah, i see how a few plant chemicals can cause massive side effects.
Regarding ED with finasteride, well nocebo or not, they observed various damages to prostate and penile tissuses with a long term exposure to 5AR, along with neurosteroids depletion in the cerebrospinal fluid, damages are real, but it's the only thing we got

 

[UberBaldaten]

They are plenty of plant extracted chemicals that can do a lot of damage to the human body at a very low dose, even death, so yeah, i see how a few plant chemicals can cause massive side effects.
Regarding ED with finasteride, well nocebo or not, they observed various damages to prostate and penile tissuses with a long term exposure to 5AR, along with neurosteroids depletion in the cerebrospinal fluid, damages are real, but it's the only thing we got

The results are still inconclusive, especially since we have a biological model of people living without 5ar type 2.

As for plants, I referred to those that refer to 5ar inhibition. Equol is plant based and in past studies hasn't done much.

We all know cyanide can wreck you easily.