Is clinical data for Folligen sketchy to anybody else?

[elguapo]

I keep forgetting to ask this question, in part because I don't use folligen or tricomin right now, but...

The data backing up folligen on the skinbiology site is all about mice, with no photos. I won't mock the site for having 3rd grade drawings of hair follicles, though that doesn't help them either.=) I am simply saying that I would like to see some data regarding human studies.

I know that the theory behind it is legit- that copper peptides are present in the solution, and this resembles tricomin (and is supposedly better), so I searched for data on tricomin, and found a website that talks about some CEO's comments on human studies performed:

http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_c...ent_surgeons/1998/tricomin_trachy_results.cfm

But there is little data to be found there.

So where is the data on human studies for tricomin and folligen? If you know of a link, please pass it on.

And if tricomin is now a watered-down version of what it was during the studies, how the hell did they get away with this? Is there any published information on this? I agree that it just feels weak, and I doubt tricomin does very much against male pattern baldness. Folligen, on the other hand, is strong stuff.

 

[Cassin]

irritation

I have never really looked at it from a regrowth/stopping DHT angle. I use it for irritation only.

 

[Bryan]

sdgf

Here's something I once posted on alt.baldspot about SODs in general, and copper-peptides specifically:

On Tue, 09 Jul 2002 02:00:16 GMT, honkguy <honkguy@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> >BTW, show me one shred of clinical evidence that SODs grow hair on male pattern baldness
>> >sufferers. Don't pull out the "clinical trials" from ProCyte, either, because
>> >I believe those results about as much as I believe Springhair Tonic works.
>>
>> Why do you feel that way, Mitch? I've previously cited three studies
>> on SODs that were published in a medical journal;
>
>For male pattern baldness? Could you posts the references if you get a chance?

Oops... I goofed. They weren't published in a medical journal, they were published in the book "Dermatologic Research Techniques", CRC Press, 1996.

They are three consecutive chapters in the book:

Chapter 16: "Phototrichogram Analysis of Hair Follicle Stimulation: A Pilot Clinical Study with a Peptide-Copper Complex" Ronald E. Trachy, Leonard M. Patt, Gordon M. Duncan, and Bernard Kalis. This was done on *human* subjects with male pattern baldness. Both total and anagen hair density increased significantly (anagen hair: +39%) with the larger topical dose of copper-peptide (glycyl-histidine-lysine-valine-phenyalanine-valine), especially when compared to total and anagen hair density LOSSES in the placebo-treated group.

Chapter 17: "Quantitative Assessment of Peptide-Copper Complex-Induced Hair Follicle Stimulation Using the Fuzzy Rat" Ronald E. Trachy, Hideo Uno, Shelley Packard, and Leonard M. Patt. This was done on rats. Copper peptides significantly stimulated hair growth, compared to vehicle.

Chapter 18: "Evaluation of Telogen Hair Follicle Stimulation Using an In Vivo Model: Results with peptide-Copper Complexes" Ronald E. Trachy, Erika D. Timpe, Irene Dunwiddie, and Leonard M. Patt. This was on mice. Copper peptides significantly stimulated hair growth in mice, compared to vehicle; it also exceeded the growth induced by 2% topical minoxidil, which was also tested.

>> and then there's Dr. Proctor's huge clinical experience with them; and
>> then there's my very own experience with Prox-N (emphasis on SODs,
>> obviously) that I've seen with my own two eyes. Why do YOU have such
>> a problem believing that they work?
>
>As a SOD user, I actually don't have any problem with believing they work; I'm just
>pointing out these agents, which we all seem to place at least some degree in faith
>in, IMHO fall into HairLossTalk.com's definition of "unproven treatments" (as would Revivogen).
>They don't have the large-scale clinical studies like finasteride and minoxidil to
>support their efficacy- essentially, we're relying on smaller, indirect studies and
>Dr. P's expertise with hair loss agents. FDA-approved treatments, as you well
>know, are scarce in this area, so I really believe we've got to work with a much
>looser definition of "unproven."

Ok. What bothered me was your rather vitriolic response ("Don't pull out the "clinical trials" from ProCyte, either, because I believe those results about as much as I believe Springhair Tonic works"), which suggested to me that you thought that copper peptides for male pattern baldness are absolutely positively nothing but a huge scam and ripoff, rather than just something which is relatively lacking in clinical evidence, at least compared to other things like minoxidil, which has been tested for almost two decades. As long as you don't lump copper peptides in with Springhair Tonic, then I don't have a problem with what you said!

Bryan

 

[Guest]

SOD's

Bryan,

I am with you on this. In my experience, Folligen and NANO are the real deal. They work!

 

[mediatech]

Re: SOD's

Bryan,

I am with you on this. In my experience, Folligen and NANO are the real deal. They work!

Not only does Folligen work on the hairline but copper peptides make your skin look younger too... I'm using Super Cop over my entire face (painful but very effective) by skinbio.com

Super Cop is about 5 times stronger than Folligen and used for scar reduction. It does a great job tightening the loose skin under the chin and jaw line. Gets rid of crows feet and laugh lines too. I'll let you know if it makes my hair fall out or not

Here are some clinical abstracts regarding GHK copper peptides in general:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

 

[bombscience]

peptides for you and me

Copper Peptides have been the only thing I've added to my regimen that has made some sort of difference. My scalp is MUCH less irritated. They work.