I'm a newbie- can you help me?

[Topper]

Hi, this is my first post on this board. Only today did I choose to explore the resources I had available to me online, and ended up here. There's a whole load of information on this site, and it's pretty comforting.

Anyway, I'm a 23 old college student who's been balding for a little over the last 3 years but only recently have I really been bothered by it. I have a small bald spot growing on my crown, and my front is thinning a little too, although I'm not as concerned about the latter as I am the former.

I've also been using Rogaine 2% since Feb 2002- about 18 months now. When I started using it, I could notice some shedding but it wasn't so bad. I would just apply it twice a day and forget about it. I thought, I may not necessarily begin to regrow the lost hair, but at least I'll stop or slow down the process for awhile. I thought it was doing that modest job until recently- it now looks like the bald spot is noticeably larger than it was originally. I mean, it's actually thinning back there. And since I noticed that, it seems to have accelerated. I couldn't believe it- it seemed to be working just fine for the first year, and in the last 6 months, it seems to have caught up to the original problem. The thing is, I've been applying Rogaine 2x everyday, so that hasn't changed. As for the shedding, it's definitely picked up a little bit. Some people may be confused by this (as am I) but I think the shedding altogether STOPPED for the first two or three Rogaine months, and has since resumed its pace (and accelerated). Almost like the reverse of what was to be expected. (i.e. It stopped the shedding in its tracks for the first while, and now is doing absolutely nothing to even slow it down anymore. From one extreme to the other.)

It's a strange issue I suppose, especially considering that Rogaine never really regrew any hair at all. If anything, it just seemed to slow it down- but it's definitely not slowing anything down anymore.

So I'm wondering:

1) Does it make sense for Rogaine to "work" (although not really for me) for a limited period of time before its "effectiveness" (however limited) wears off?

2) I'm thinking that maybe it should have helped to actually regrow some hair to start off with although I never had those expectations (I just wanted to slow it down). After all, I haven't been balding for 20 or 30 years- I'm still relatively young and seem to fit in their "most likely to work on you" category. When I started, it wasn't easily noticeable to anyone except my barber and I. The question is, am I applying it incorrectly? I use the spray because I'm not comfortable with the dropper and spray 4 times on my crown and the remaining 2 times on the frontal mid area. Then I work it through with my fingertips.

I imagine there could be a problem since I still have a lot of hair on my head, and the solution may be getting absorbed by the HAIR and not the SCALP, but I don't have any choice really. I have to work it in thoroughly with my fingertips otherwise it gets caught in the hair or slides off the top of my head. But then that leads me to the next question...

3) Can I possibly be getting most of the solution stuck on my fingertips? Who knows if that's even possible but the point is that I really spend lots of time working it in. I'm wondering if there may be a "Doing too much" problem there?

4) I see some contradictions in places and was looking for a summary answer, I guess, on the following topic: I STILL feel "irritation", absolutely, but probably not as much as I first did and it certainly doesn't bother me. Now I'm reading that the irritation should go away after a period of time, but mine hasn't. Of course, it never worried me because it just was never that bad. You can always kind of feel it back there but that's it. So the question: When is there "too much" irritation? When is it too bad?

Okay, any help with those queries is much appreciated. I don't know as much about hair loss as some of you (as I've read from other posts) but I've got to start somewhere. (I'm probably gonna learn more soon, whether I like it or not )I've been searching FAQ's all afternoon looking for answers to those Q's, but my Q's seem to be a little unique. I don't mean to waste anyone's time.

Thank you in advance.

Brian

p.s. Whew! That's a long post! lol

 

[HairlossTalk]

1) Does it make sense for Rogaine to "work" (although not really for me) for a limited period of time before its "effectiveness" (however limited) wears off?

Hi Topper, and welcome to the HairlossTalk forums.

The answer to this first question is yes. The next question as to "when" depends entirely on your body and how well and how long of a responder you end up being. We only know from the clinical data on Rogaine (we encourage you to read the studies here on our site: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/resourcelibrary ) the average duration found in the studies, which was about 4-5 years.

Keep this in mind though. Your hair cycles into sheds and growths whether or not you lose hair. Shedding is normal and can result in a larger than normal bald spot. The good news is, you'll probably be just fine again in a few months. Your job is to make sure that from now until then, you stick with your treatments, or up them a bit...

Am I applying it incorrectly? I use the spray because I'm not comfortable with the dropper and spray 4 times on my crown and the remaining 2 times on the frontal mid area. Then I work it through with my fingertips.

You're applying correctly. No problems there.

Can I possibly be getting most of the solution stuck on my fingertips? Who knows if that's even possible but the point is that I really spend lots of time working it in. I'm wondering if there may be a "Doing too much" problem there?

Put the nozzle right up to the scalp inbetween the hairs, give it your four squirts, rub it all over on the skin (yes you're getting it on the skin) for a second or two, and leave it. Boom. Its on the skin. Thats the goal. As long as you are not blowdrying it or washing it immediately after, it will absorb and do its job.

I STILL feel "irritation", absolutely, but probably not as much as I first did and it certainly doesn't bother me. Now I'm reading that the irritation should go away after a period of time, but mine hasn't.

Make sure you are using Nizoral shampoo once every 3 days to help control the irritation. If your irritation is directly caused by Rogaine, we suggest getting Folligen Lotion or Cream or Spray, and applying it a couple hours after the Rogaine. It works wonders for irritation caused by Rogaine.

When is there "too much" irritation? When is it too bad?

Any irritation is typically considered less than desireable, although not horrendously dangerous. Still, it should be a goal to get it under control.

Here's my advice to you: Depending on how long you've seen your bald spot suddenly expanding (assuming you've given it more than 3 months), I would consider upping your treatment to Rogaine 5%. If you're experiencing irritation on the 2%, definitely get some folligen and apply it to the affected areas. It will only help. Upping your Rogaine % will cause some more shedding so you're going to need to ride it out for another 3 months before you expect any results. Its very possible you could, in 6-8 months, see your bald spot shrinking. The 5% has a higher success rate than the 2%. If you feel so inclined, you may wish to start using Propecia as well, because that will almost guarantee you success in tackling your minor hair loss completely. Its your personal decision however.

Hope this helps.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[flux]

p.s. Whew! That's a long post! lol

Yes, yes it was. Have you concidered using Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar)? Minoxidil will grow hair despite the onset of male pattern baldness, but the finasteride does more to actually battle male pattern baldness directly.

 

[Guest]

HairLossTalk.com-

Rogaine losses its effectiveness after a couple years and you will continue to go bald again even if you use it twice a day? Whats the deal please fill me in on what ya meant that it only last 4-5 years in clinical studies.

 

[flux]

Ooh boy,.


Rogain doesnt stop baldness. I dont think it loses effectiveness so much as it just starts losing the battle. Still, even when you start to lose your hair again, you'd better keep using minoxidil, or you'll be where you would have been without the minoxidil in a matter of months. Which is why I strongly reccomend fighting the DHT battle as well.

 

[Guest]

Is there anything else u can switch 2 to takes minoxs place in effectiveness and keep the results you have gotten with minoxidil? Or like Xzel said, quit using it for 2 months then start up again?

And I knew rogaine doesnt stop baldness. I just thought it prevented it from getting worse if you continue using it everday for the rest of ur life.

 

[flux]

Sorry to burst your bubble, oh young one. Nothing works like minoxidil, and if you rely on minoxidil alone, when you start to bald the only thing you can do is try stronger minoxidil. Eventually, you will still go bald.

Check out the long term studies here:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/resourcelibrary/

On average, minoxidil will have given you all the regrowth you're gonna get at the end of year 1. After that, guess what, you start to lose hair again. It is NOT that the minoxidil stops working, it is that your follicles never stopped being rejected by your immune system thanks to our buddy DHT.

This is the reality we all face. BUT, when you are old enough, you could add Propecia, which should add years to your hair.

The only hope beyond the 5-10 years the finasteride/min/nizoral combo is capable of giving us are future promising topicals like RU and OSH101.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Is there anything else u can switch 2 to takes minoxs place in effectiveness and keep the results you have gotten with minoxidil?

Nothing has the level of clinical data backing it that we can point to, no. You keep what you gain on minoxidil, and you lose what you gain if you stop taking it. One might try replacing it with Tricomin Therapy Spray as it is the next most tested product out there, but you step out of the realm of clinically proven treatments either way. Use Propecia.

I just thought it prevented it from getting worse if you continue using it everday for the rest of ur life.

If it did that, Rogaine would be considered a cure to hair loss. Its just a treatment. Even Propecia which has shown effectiveness in the vast majority for over 7 years in clinical trials began to have a tapered off effect in some people after that time. Nothing is forever. This is why we suggest pacing yourself by using Propecia alone for as long as it works for you, and save Minoxidil (or vice versa) for if and when it starts to fade.

This is also why we suggest Propecia first instead of Minoxidil first for maintenance. Once minoxidil stops working, you WILL lose what you've gained even if you add Propecia. If Propecia's effectiveness begins to fade, you can kickstart things without any losses by adding Rogaine.

(in my opinion)

HairLossTalk.com

 

[flux]

This is why we suggest pacing yourself by using Propecia alone for as long as it works for you, and save Minoxidil (or vice versa) for if and when it starts to fade.

I have never read that, and was never suggested that in the forums. Always finasteride/min/nizoral, finasteride/min/nizoral.

Still, I'm not sure I believe this. I am really doubting that minoxidil really stops working as much as the follicles just get damaged beyond the point of assistance.

 

[Topper]

Wow, thanks for the informative replies. Never thought I'd get such fantastic attention.

In terms of using Propecia, I'm an insulin-dependent diabetic, so I can't mess with my internal organs that much. I've gotta stick to the topical stuff because anything I ingest is potentially dangerous.

I didn't know that Rogaine's effectiveness wore off... especially after just 18 months. I don't really even know if it was effective for that time period because I didn't experience much regrowth (if any). But regardless, assuming it was indeed preventing excessive hair loss, it's hard for me to believe that its positive effect was so quick to wear off.

Sort of makes me wonder how they got FDA approval... and how they're selling it at such an expensive tag.

What puzzles me the most is that they admit that the drug will take time to kick in (and will even accelerate the balding for awhile). But if it takes one year to kick in, and (for me) stops working just 6 months after it STARTS, where is the value there? It's that short?

Anyway, I guess I've got to try something else. What would you recommend for someone like me who has to rely on topical treatment? I understand that it's different for everyone, but I'm just looking for something/anything to try.

It seems there's just way too much detailed information everywhere and not enough of the basics. I don't even know what kind of shampoos/gels are the least harmful for my hair. I understand everyone probably has a different theory, but there must be a couple of theories that stand out over the others. I'm just looking for the basics, the bare minimum.

finasteride/nizoral/male pattern baldness/DHT are simply way over my head.

Thanks a bunch for your help.

Brian

 

[flux]

Topper, these studies were based on 5% minoxidil. It doesnt take a year to kick in, it takes around 4 months. And it does NOT stop working. AFAIK, it NEVER stops working! People just dont seem to understand that Minoxidil does NOT fight male pattern baldness!! It merely grows hair DESPITE the onset of male pattern baldness, until the follicles are to far gooe. Still, if you use it, you will have more hair then you would without it. Period.

Still, minoxidil works, very well in fact, and can be had for $5 for a months supply here in the states.

You should still be fighting DHT. One common method for this is Spironolactone, which can be purchased in various locations like http://www.minoxidil.com

 

[maddoc23]

Topper,

The best thing you can do for yourself is to drop rogaine and pickup propecia. Having Type I Diabetes should not be affected by propecia, but definetly see an Endocrinologist.....and remember to check your feet before you go to bed.

D

 

[Topper]

Topper,

and remember to check your feet before you go to bed.

D

Thanks, but I don't know really what that means. Well, okay, I know what it means for diabetics but what does it means with respect to Rogaine or me? And what should I do when "checking my feet", etc.

I'm just a newbie, remember, so being nice and basic is perfect for me.

And I've read places that although a treatment may not hurt me in some ways, it can cause a loss of libido or whatever, and that's just not worth it at all. In other words, I don't want any side effects. If there's something that can give me a better chance (operative word: chance) then I'll check it out.

Just the basic info is what I'm looking for...

Thanks a bunch.

Brian

 

[HairlossTalk]

This is why we suggest pacing yourself by using Propecia alone for as long as it works for you, and save Minoxidil (or vice versa) for if and when it starts to fade.

I have never read that, and was never suggested that in the forums. Always finasteride/min/nizoral, finasteride/min/nizoral.

I've always been a staunch (and lonely) supporter of starting small and working your way up. If you can play the odds of 83% effectiveness and win them, you've only got to pop a pill every day for the next 7 years. Simple logic tells me this makes way more sense than dumping it all at the same time. I haven't voiced this opinion much recently.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[maddoc23]

Topper,

I mentioned checking your feet because of the prevalent neuropathy and microcirculatory complications that accompany Type I Diabetes Mellitus. As for your regime, Propecia gives you your single best chance of success. Taking propecia can replace the use of topicals, and if you decide propecia has not been to your satisfacation THEN you can add rogaine or anything else you want(one year later). Don't dismiss propecia because you have Type I Diabetes. Check with your doctor about possible complications from propecia, and with an endocrinologist (if needed).

D

 

[Topper]

Topper,

I mentioned checking your feet because of the prevalent neuropathy and microcirculatory complications that accompany Type I Diabetes Mellitus. As for your regime, Propecia gives you your single best chance of success. Taking propecia can replace the use of topicals, and if you decide propecia has not been to your satisfacation THEN you can add rogaine or anything else you want(one year later). Don't dismiss propecia because you have Type I Diabetes. Check with your doctor about possible complications from propecia, and with an endocrinologist (if needed).

D

Thanks. I'm still hesitant about propecia. As I said, I don't want any side effects- whether they occur in 100% of the people or 5%. I just want some harmless regimen that can only help (even if it's for only 1% of the population) and not hurt. I've read in places that a loss of libido may occur with propecia, and that's one thing that is not worth it for me. I care about my hair loss, but I just can't say I equate it with my sex drive. One thing is far important (for me) than the other.

As for propecia being a pill, that is also not something that appeals to me. Sure, it may be fine and may be metabolized by the liver (and thus not damaging to the heart or kidney) but I like keeping my organs (all of them) as healthy as possible. My body just tells me to stay away from pills that are expensive and require to be ingested.

But that's just my personal side. Propecia is also pretty expensive. My budget for saving my hair probably can't exceed $60/month right now. Propecia + Rogaine would put me over (since I'm in Canada and the Rogaine is $55 itself here... the 2%.

 

[flux]

You can get Generic Kirkland Minoxidil 5% (identical to Rogaine from what I hear) for under $10/bottle online. Do a http://www.froogle.com search.

Finasteride (Propecia/Proscar) can also be had for next to nothing, and the loss of libido is almost always something that corrects itself, or goes away if the drug is discontinued. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the only organ it may effect is the prostate, in which it decreases the odds of cancer.

But I don't know why I'm telling you this, you're dead set against it. Having other health concerns, I can understand being especially aware of your body chemestry.

In this game there are two types of MBP fighters, those who want to do as much as they can, and those who want to do as little as might help. Not that theres anything wrong with the latter, but I'm with the former, and my libido is still quite strong, and my hair keeps getting thicker.