how much does nizoral suppress sebum production compared to
- Thread starter CCS
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I found a post by MB saying there is a study in the HairLossTalk.com library that says nizoral reduces sebum secretion by 20%. Nice, but I wonder how much spironolactone reduces it.
I just don't want to add another topical if Nizoral is almost as good in that regard.
I just don't want to add another topical if Nizoral is almost as good in that regard.
For any newbies, sebum is not bad. But its production levels are one way that we can measure androgen levels. Androgens are bad for hair.
Looks like MB never tested spironolactone. Regular green tea concentrated 4x with some ethanol added did not decrease his sebum production. Fluridil had the strongest reduction, from a 5 to a 3.5, whatever that means. Nizoral gave a 20% reduction according to a separate study.
Most polyphenols oxidize very fast in solution, like within an hour, unless the solution is acidic, preferably pH 4. Piroctone olamine seems to work just fine, and may last longer once inside the scalp.
Nizoral is so cheap that it makes me not want to mess with other stuff. I would like to compare the growth stimulant ability of nizoral to that of minoxidil, and know if they are additive.
Then spironolactone and revivogen may have smell issues.
Looks like MB never tested spironolactone. Regular green tea concentrated 4x with some ethanol added did not decrease his sebum production. Fluridil had the strongest reduction, from a 5 to a 3.5, whatever that means. Nizoral gave a 20% reduction according to a separate study.
Most polyphenols oxidize very fast in solution, like within an hour, unless the solution is acidic, preferably pH 4. Piroctone olamine seems to work just fine, and may last longer once inside the scalp.
Nizoral is so cheap that it makes me not want to mess with other stuff. I would like to compare the growth stimulant ability of nizoral to that of minoxidil, and know if they are additive.
Then spironolactone and revivogen may have smell issues.
So antiandrogen is a wide term for anything that reduced the effects of androgens, either by blocking the receptor, down regulating the receptor, or blocking 5ar, or even other means.
I wonder what kind of antiandrogen keto is. I'm guessing either a 5ar1 inhibitor or an androgen receptor blocker.
If keto is an androgen receptor blocker, then I would not bother adding spironolactone. But if it is just a 5ar1 inhibitor, then spironolactone would be a synergistic addition.
As for immune response, some people don't make enough GLA at certain ages as they should. I for one am constantly blowing my nose, which I guess means I have allergies. I read that if you take a table spoon of borageseed oil and a pinch of sesame seed hulls each day, your body can make a substance that modulates the immune system so it won't have the allergic response as much. My father has had some success with this. I think this would be a safe, good thing to try for people with lupus, and it might work on hair loss a bit too.
http://www.tldp.com/lupus/lupus_%20review.htm
There, look at that. Just google lupus gla, or allergies gla. Tons of articles. It works better though if you take it with sesame seed hulls, ground up.
I wonder what kind of antiandrogen keto is. I'm guessing either a 5ar1 inhibitor or an androgen receptor blocker.
If keto is an androgen receptor blocker, then I would not bother adding spironolactone. But if it is just a 5ar1 inhibitor, then spironolactone would be a synergistic addition.
As for immune response, some people don't make enough GLA at certain ages as they should. I for one am constantly blowing my nose, which I guess means I have allergies. I read that if you take a table spoon of borageseed oil and a pinch of sesame seed hulls each day, your body can make a substance that modulates the immune system so it won't have the allergic response as much. My father has had some success with this. I think this would be a safe, good thing to try for people with lupus, and it might work on hair loss a bit too.
http://www.tldp.com/lupus/lupus_%20review.htm
There, look at that. Just google lupus gla, or allergies gla. Tons of articles. It works better though if you take it with sesame seed hulls, ground up.
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CCS said:
The term "antiandrogen" is specifically supposed to refer to an androgen receptor blocker, although that doesn't stop the readers of hairloss sites from using it to refer to other things, even 5a-reductase inhibitors like finasteride and dutasteride.
CCS said:
It's the original French study of Nizoral shampoo for male pattern baldness which found what appeared to be an average reduction in the size of sebaceous glands of close to 20%. As far as I know, there's never been a study which found a similar effect from topical spironolactone. In fact, there's a small report in one medical journal which found that it had no effect at all on the sebum excretion rate in some patients. I have no idea why it failed.
Thanks Bryan. So when many HairLossTalk.com people refered to keto as an antiandrogen, were they using the name correctly?
If keto is an androgen receptor blocker, I think my regimen will be oral finasteride, nizoral shampoo, and 5% minoxidil with piroctone olamine powder in it, if I can just buy the piroctone olamine. It is not prescription, so maybe one of these chemical companies will sell it to me. It is water soluble, so maybe it won't precipitate any minoxidil. It is not that reactive at all. I think its mechanism of action on hair is the sustained antioxidant effect counteracts the peroxide attack of the immune system on the hair follicles. EGCG degrades so fast that I'm no longer interested in using it. That should be an easy regimen to follow.
The only plant topical I plan to use is my licorice extract on the big pores of my nose.
If keto is an androgen receptor blocker, I think my regimen will be oral finasteride, nizoral shampoo, and 5% minoxidil with piroctone olamine powder in it, if I can just buy the piroctone olamine. It is not prescription, so maybe one of these chemical companies will sell it to me. It is water soluble, so maybe it won't precipitate any minoxidil. It is not that reactive at all. I think its mechanism of action on hair is the sustained antioxidant effect counteracts the peroxide attack of the immune system on the hair follicles. EGCG degrades so fast that I'm no longer interested in using it. That should be an easy regimen to follow.
The only plant topical I plan to use is my licorice extract on the big pores of my nose.
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CCS said:
Yes, I think it's reasonable to refer to it as an antiandrogen. There's a study (might even be available on this site) which found it to be an androgen receptor blocker.
CCS said:
From what little I've looked at piroctone olamine in the past, I've had the impression that it helps hair because of its antimicrobial properties.
UunoTurhapuro
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bryan what are you currently using to maintain/grow your hair?