How much does crime cost?

[CCS]

Think of the money you spend on security, be it police, the locks on your door, or just stressing and watching out for attackers. Add to that the money you lose when someone steals from you, tricks you into thinking you are getting one thing and they give you something else, or the security costs stores have which is passed on to you in prices. How much of your total income does it cost you? And how much higher would your expendible income be if you did not have to pay all that?

I think the world would be a much better place if we had to technology to totally catch every criminal or con artist etc, and even tell you who your friends are and who the fakes are, etc.

But what if we had cameras everywhere, and could record every theft, vandalism, etc? All a criminal has to do is wear a mask while doing the crime. We would have to have cameras in every room, everywhere, and after the fact follow the masked person back to some else's house where they changed close and put the mask on, in order to catch them. And that is just to catch a common vandal. You'd need mind reading or something to catch the fake friends who really just want to hurt you but need you to lower your guard first.

But if we had all that technology, intended to end crime and ensure that all we have to do is work, and that we will know what to expect from our work, there would be an unintended consequence:
If the wrong person gets access to that power, they could use it to control the world. They could know who all their political enemies are, listen in to conversations, and control us all. We would have to make sure that no one is allowed to use this technology without a warrent from a judge, and that they are not allowed to browse it. Only a randomly selected police officer or other person in another state may look at the videos to see if the specified crime was committed. It could work, but once the technology is out there, we better make sure no dictator gets a hold of it.

 

[blueshard]

The thing is, In My Opinion at least, is that even with Big Brother technology crime will not stop.

People committing crime (the majority of them) are people responding to their environment. The conflict of interest does not lie within the individual, the "problem" lies within the system. So even if you removed all of the criminals, there are still more criminals being produced.

The technology you suggest is just awful. That technology would allow politicians to make easy "topical" societal changes, without making any fundamental changes that lay at the heart of social structure. This is akin to wiping the puss from an infected wound and saying "see, I fixed the problem" while the infection is right below the skin making more puss.

In other words... there is a reason why in economically depressed, inner city neighborhoods, there is a shitload of crime. And the reason for it does not lie within the individual. The reason lies within oppression.

There are exceptions to this of course. But the majority of the time, ya know, excluding the mentally ill, and maybe even then... people are just trying to survive, they are just like you collegechemistrystudent, trying to survive.

 

[s.a.f]

There are exceptions to this of course. But the majority of the time, ya know, excluding the mentally ill, and maybe even then... people are just trying to survive, they are just like you collegechemistrystudent, trying to survive.

Thats total BS, the vast majority of crime is purely a result of greed and lazyness. People dont want to work for things. Maybe they are influenced by what is around them but in this day and age nobody (even the homeless) needs to turn to crime to survive.

I think better security measures have reduced some types of crimes but we are also fighting a decline in moral society that helps to sway the balance. Maybe harsher punishments would be a better deterant.

Ps You been watching minority report or something CCS?

 

[CCS]

Maybe harsher punishments would be a better deterant.

Ps You been watching minority report or something CCS?

No, just upset how many times I've been ripped off and how some people who don't like me managed to get my address.

As for harsher punishments, I disagree. Often we don't know for sure if someone is guilty. I'd hate to give a harsher punishment to an innocent person. I also hate how 1 in 1000 speeders gets a speeding ticket, but it is $300, which can really hurt some people. They should catch you speeding 75% of the time and give you a $10 ticket each time. Now that is something cameras can do.

And I agree with SAF that many people feel way too entitled and like to live outside their means and will borrow or steal money from anyone they can to "survive", as they see it. They think that living on a budget like everyone else is just beneath them.

I've had coworkers who make just as much as me, but choose to blow their pay checks on strippers. Then when they find out I have money because I did not spend mine, they follow me around pressuring me to "lend" them some, laying every guilt trip on me they can, saying they can't pay their rent and I'm a bad friend if I don't help them. It just angers me how these people think they have every right to my resources.

Many women are this way too, and will deliborately flirt with men to get free stuff from them, knowing the man wants sex, and then leave after they've got all the free stuff they can get without having to have sex. If the guy looks OK, or has a lot of money and is loose with it, she might even get physical with him here and there to keep him on the hook longer.

Then there are the salesreps who tell you one thing, get your signature, then hand you something else. I got ripped by one a while ago. The contract says I'm getting a Tranz 330. But on the phone he said it was portable. I got it, and it is a Tranz 330, but must be plugged into my wall at all times to work. The website did not specify what the Tranz 330 was in that regards.

Yeah, all these people just trying to survive. I just wish they would try to survive by working instead of spending all their time trying to rip people off. Look at all the mathematicians who analyze the stock market, trying to make a fast dollar. What if they all used their brains to manufacture better technologies to put on the market?

We would be so much richer as a society if everyone focused on producing instead of trying to con money from each other.

I'd love it if some technology came out to let everyone know exactly what they are getting, so the con men can't trick anyone. I'd love it if the police knew a shop lifter when they saw one, and could give that knowledge to the courts as well. Some people would still commit crimes anyway, but a lot more would find it more profitable to work.

But if we had that technology, we would need a way to make sure a dictator did not get access to a lot of spy info and use it to control us all.

But

 

[GeminiX]

75p and a packet of Rolos

At least that's how much crime cost me when I got picked on by some bigger kids at school years ago...

 

[s.a.f]

As for harsher punishments, I disagree. Often we don't know for sure if someone is guilty. I'd hate to give a harsher punishment to an innocent person. I also hate how 1 in 1000 speeders gets a speeding ticket, but it is $300, which can really hurt some people. They should catch you speeding 75% of the time and give you a $10 ticket each time. Now that is something cameras can do.

That may be fairer but its no deterrant, if people think they only risk a $10 fine they wont care.

And I agree with SAF that many people feel way too entitled and like to live outside their means and will borrow or steal money from anyone they can to "survive", as they see it. They think that living on a budget like everyone else is just beneath them.

I've had coworkers who make just as much as me, but choose to blow their pay checks on strippers. Then when they find out I have money because I did not spend mine, they follow me around pressuring me to "lend" them some, laying every guilt trip on me they can, saying they can't pay their rent and I'm a bad friend if I don't help them. It just angers me how these people think they have every right to my resources.

Thats not crime thats just mooching, its up to you to pick your freinds.

Many women are this way too, and will deliborately flirt with men to get free stuff from them, knowing the man wants sex, and then leave after they've got all the free stuff they can get without having to have sex. If the guy looks OK, or has a lot of money and is loose with it, she might even get physical with him here and there to keep him on the hook longer.

Not many women are like that CCS. Maybe if you go to a sleazy bar full of shallow loose, drunk women, then yes but your view of women in general is way off almost to the point of paranoia.

 

[blueshard]

Thats total BS, the vast majority of crime is purely a result of greed and lazyness. People dont want to work for things. Maybe they are influenced by what is around them but in this day and age nobody (even the homeless) needs to turn to crime to survive.

I disagree with you. Go to an inner city neighborhood and tell them that they do not need to commit crime to survive. Tell them that there are plenty of resources available to them. See what response you get.

I can see corporate crime being a result of greed and laziness. After all "greed is good." We respect people for the money they have, not the ways in which they received that money. So again, people responding to their environment.

If you are saying that the person who mugs someone is lazy and greedy, then I have to disagree with you. In general, people do not mug other people for money when they have the resources to succeed on their own. People have the desire for self-actualization.

I am NOT suggesting that what I am saying is all encompassing. That would be a SERIOUS error.

I am also NOT suggesting that we shouldn't punish people who commit crimes because they are responding to their environment and it is "not their fault."

What I am suggesting is that the majority of people who commit crimes are not individuals with innate character flaws. They are acting out of necessity or in response to cultural norms. If the culture and conditions do not change, people will continue committing crime. Therefore there needs to be SYSTEMIC change in our system and our culture to reduce crime; to get to the heart of the problem.

 

[s.a.f]

They are acting in response to cultural norms.

Thats the only thing I'll agree on, if you grow up surrounded by crime it could be seen as more normal/acceptable behaviour.

Go to an inner city neighborhood and tell them that they do not need to commit crime to survive. Tell them that there are plenty of resources available to them. See what response you get.
If you are saying that the person who mugs someone is lazy and greedy, then I have to disagree with you. In general, people do not mug other people for money when they have the resources to succeed on their own. People have the desire for self-actualization.

Total Bull :shakehead: go to any inner city neighbourhood and you'll find people who are surviving perfectly well and trying to better their situation through hard work, despite being surrounded by poverty and crime. Inner cities are not totally populated by gangmembers other people old folks ect have to live their aswell are they going out commiting crimes?
Are you seriously saying that being poor is an acceptable excuse for mugging/robbing people?
Anyone can educate/work themselves out of poverty. Most criminals are quite frankly just lazy scumbags also a significant % of crime is carried out by drug addicts who through their own fault are in no position to hold down a job.

 

[ali777]

I've never been a victim of petty crime, ie small crime... Not that it doesn't happen where I live, but it's not a huge issue for me at least.

Actually, I had my jacket disappear once, and the security ppl put it down as missing rather than stolen to keep their stats down...

I'm more annoyed with the corporate thieves. With income tax, VAT, and other stealth taxes we end up paying at least 40% tax. Basically, almost half the money we make goes to the government but then the government hands it out to thieves or doesn't collect similar taxes from the super-rich....

For example we are in the middle of the credit crunch.. It really pisses me off that the people in the city get paid bonuses for doing a good job, but don't get their money taken away for doing a bad job. It's as if they have a freedom to gamble, if the gamble doesn't pay off they get away with it... In my opinion this is an example of legal crime... Someone uses my 40% contribution to bail out a gambler.

Tomorrow I can go to the shop and buy a new jacket. Even an expensive one will cost less than my tax contribution... The cost of crime? You decide...

 

[blueshard]

S.A.F. I think that we are going to have to let this just convo be because I can't understand you at all and you can't understand me at all. We are just going to get riled up and agitated.

 

[CCS]

Go to an inner city neighborhood and tell them that they do not need to commit crime to survive. Tell them that there are plenty of resources available to them. See what response you get.
If you are saying that the person who mugs someone is lazy and greedy, then I have to disagree with you. In general, people do not mug other people for money when they have the resources to succeed on their own. People have the desire for self-actualization.

Total Bull :shakehead: go to any inner city neighbourhood and you'll find people who are surviving perfectly well and trying to better their situation through hard work, despite being surrounded by poverty and crime. Inner cities are not totally populated by gangmembers other people old folks ect have to live their aswell are they going out commiting crimes?
Are you seriously saying that being poor is an acceptable excuse for mugging/robbing people?

I agree with SAF. How do these muggers have people to mug? We agree that everyone in that getto is poor, right? All equally poor, or close. Yet most of them have jobs. How else would they have anything to steal? Or are you saying that they all just settle there for the night, pay rent, and 90% of the poor people leave to beverly hills to rob houses by day, and when they come back, 10% rob them of half their spoils? I doubt it. I think there is a little long distance robbing, but most of it is working poor, and then drug dealers feeding off them. They have the means to survive. They just want to steal from people so they can get more by working less.

Anyone can educate/work themselves out of poverty. Most criminals are quite frankly just lazy scumbags also a significant % of crime is carried out by drug addicts who through their own fault are in no position to hold down a job.

Agreed. Drug damage is a big part. There are disabled people in wheel chairs collecting welfare, but they are not the ones breaking into houses.

 

[The Gardener]

http://www.counterpunch.org/giroux02062009.html

 

[blueshard]

Excellent read Gardener.

I do believe as suggested in the article, that this "fall" is actually a blessing in disguise.

You know how the whole 2012 thing is supposed to be a change in consciousness? Well if there is such a change, I believe that a less individualistic consciousness may very well be that change.

Breaking down the walls between individuals that form as they struggle to make more money than the other person would be a move to a healthier way of being.

Just my opinion.