Help me to understand something: Topical Vs. Internal

[TwoHairsLeft]

If there was a topical solution that blocked all DHT in the scalp...could your hair still get attacked by DHT through the bloodstream?..or would it try to get to the scalp but be unable to do so because of the topical solution you put in your hair?

thanks

 

[Bryan]

Depends on what you mean by "block DHT". Explain what you mean by that.

 

[TwoHairsLeft]

When I say block I mean stop it completely. I know that's not possible but for the sake of my understanding this let's assume that it is possible.

Let's say there's a topical that could block 100% of DHT and a drug that can block 100% DHT. Would it be useless to take both? Or do I need to block DHT that is on the scalp as well as DHT that is in the blood?

 

[Bryan]

When I say block I mean stop it completely.

Stop it HOW? What are you talking about? Your questions and statements are ambiguous. I don't know if you're talking about the use of 5a-reductase inhibitors like finasteride and dutasteride which stop the production of DHT, or if you're talking about antiandrogens like spironolactone, flutamide, and RU58841 which bind to androgen receptors and stop androgens (including DHT) from affecting cells. Or are you talking about some other class of drug entirely? Which one of those things are you talking about?

 

[TwoHairsLeft]

Ok let me try and re-word this again using the names of actual applications and hopefully that will help:

Assuming that topical finasteride works, would it be useless to take oral finasteride and topical finasteride at the same time?

Why or why not?

 

[ClayShaw]

When I say block I mean stop it completely.

Stop it HOW? What are you talking about? Your questions and statements are ambiguous. I don't know if you're talking about the use of 5a-reductase inhibitors like finasteride and dutasteride which stop the production of DHT, or if you're talking about antiandrogens like spironolactone, flutamide, and RU58841 which bind to androgen receptors and stop androgens (including DHT) from affecting cells. Or are you talking about some other class of drug entirely? Which one of those things are you talking about?

Has this guy always been a pompous ***, or is this new? Jesus, even his avatar makes me want to stay away.

 

[TwoHairsLeft]

Bryan, the reason I'm not answering your question directly is because in all honesty I don't know how to answer your questions. If I understood everything you were just talking about then I probably wouldn't even need to be asking the question in the first place.

Another way of me re-wording this is: when you apply a topical DHT blocker, does it just simply absorb through and do the same thing that a pill would but without running through your system?

Does anyone know what I'm asking here? Feel free to chime in.

 

[Bryan]

Assuming that topical finasteride works, would it be useless to take oral finasteride and topical finasteride at the same time?

Probably. If topical finasteride works by actually inhibiting 5a-reductase only where it's physically applied, then I certainly wouldn't want to use it BOTH topically and orally. I'd want to apply it only to my scalp, and not run the risk of side effects from having DHT suppressed all through my body.

On the other hand, if topical finasteride works only by being absorbed systemically and spreads all through the body anyway, what would really be the point of using it BOTH topically and orally? Why not just swallow it?

 

[Bryan]

Another way of me re-wording this is: when you apply a topical DHT blocker, does it just simply absorb through and do the same thing that a pill would but without running through your system?

Depends on which "topical DHT blocker" you're talking about. Some studies have shown that topical finasteride seems to work only by being absorbed systemically and then proceeds to have about the same effect as simply swallowing a pill (although other topical finasteride studies have had different results). On the other hand, there's good reason to think that the topical application of certain fatty acids (gamma-linolenic acid would be a good example) does indeed have a "local" effect of reducing DHT only where you physically apply it.

 

[TwoHairsLeft]

Cool thanks for the response, that makes sense.

I'm on Avodart (4 months) and although I haven't seen any side effects I'm worried about using it long term. After reading your responses I think I might try to mix about 8-10 avodarts in with my minoxidil in combination with a derm-roller 0.5 for better absorption and discontinue taking Avodart orally and see how it goes.

The only thing I'll really be able to monitor is my hair shedding, if I start to shed or lose hair then I'd say it's most likely not working because I look at my towel every time I wipe my head after a shower and shed max 3-6 hairs after vigorous drying. This has been a consistent variable for the past several months every day.

But in the end it may just be working because it gets into my bloodstream and does the same thing it was doing when I was taking it orally. Or maybe part of it is taking place on the scalp and part of it is in the bloodstream and the combination of the two leads to success.

In either case it would be cheaper/safer to put it on my scalp assuming it works.

Does this sound feasible? If so I may start log with pictures/procedure and update monthly.

 

[Bryan]

Does this sound feasible? If so I may start log with pictures/procedure and update monthly.

Sure, it wouldn't hurt to experiment with topical dutasteride, even if I have my doubts that it'll do much good. Be sure and keep up with that photographic record!

 

[follicle84]

Internal is best in my opinion for blocking dht. Its the only sure way your gauranteed to get the full benefits of finestride. Using topical application runs the problem of not penetrating deeply enough through the scalp to have much effect. In saying that however oral finestride only reduces serum dht in the scalp by 38%. Not a lot providing it inhibits the production of more dht round the rest of the body, running greater risk of side effects. Perhaps topical application can reduce dht to only where its not needed (in the scalp) without too much systematic absorbtion. In the hope of having the same desired effect of preventing hairloss but without the massive changes it can impose on the rest of the body.

You see the problem with blocking too much dht is that dht has a fundemental role of developing and maintaining male characteristics. Without it there's nothing to prevent us from developing female characteristics like gynecomastia. You should really only want to inhibit the production of dht to a limited extent. Enough so to leave your body in some masculine state with some possible reduction in hairloss. Keep us posted on your results.

 

[Bryan]

In saying that however oral finestride only reduces serum dht in the scalp by 38%.

I wish to god people would get away from this "DHT in the scalp" business. If you wish, you can worry about DHT in HAIR FOLLICLES, but forget the "scalp" thing, which is irrelevant, misleading, and inconsistent.

 

[hairrific]

How about SCALP HAIR FOLLICLES, because if you just say hair follicles, it does not differentiate between in the scalp follicles or the body hair follicles.

 

[Bryan]

Well EXCU-U-U-U-U-USE me!

 

[BodyDysmorphic]

bryan

your sooo efficient

i love it

cheers

 

[follicle84]

Sorry i forget not everyone knows hair follicles in the scalp generate their own 5ar to produce its own dht. I should have mentioned that, but that was kind of what i meant. My mistake.