RU58841 and Clascoterone (CB)
These treatments are topical anti-androgens which work by binding to the AR receptor of the hair follicle- displacing Test and DHT which damage the hair. Unfortunately RU58841 has only had one human trial which was not completed so as a drug we are not really sure if it has any long term effects. Clascoterone seems similar in potency at the same dose and it is currently being trialled by Cassiopea and seems safe, if it is real CB that we are getting.
Most people will probably stop at Dutasteride as this is the last FDA regulated treatment (other than spironolactone/bica etc). Going further than dutasteride is taking more risk as we are buying from Chinese labs rather than regulated pharmacists. I am perhaps willing to go further because I have found hair loss very painful so I am doing everything that I can to prevent it. Others will probably (more sensibly!) shave their heads and put it behind them after dutasteride. It may not be useful to hear my rationale but here it is, just in case anyone else is struggling with the decision. I feel that I am fighting an immediate danger to my quality of life- losing my hair. This is the battle I am fighting NOW, with the weapons that are available. These weapons are limited but that’s all we have, that doesn’t mean I’m going to give up. We have one shot and when the hair is gone, it’s gone and for my peace of mind I need to know I am doing everything that I can.
Both of these drugs are particularly useful for protecting the hair line because both finasteride and dutasteride tend to not be very effective at the front so they are a great addition to a finasteride/dutasteride based regimen. It is worth noting that, though less damaging than DHT, Testosterone also causes miniaturisation. CB and RU are the only easily available treatments that work against Testosterone. I wouldn’t advise them to be used instead of finasteride/ dutasteride because alone they are unlikely to be powerful enough to stop hair loss, but work well in addition to oral finasteride/dutasteride. I apply 5% solution once per day but in time I may well up this to twice.
It stands to reason that we should all be using Clascoterone rather than RU as we have more safety data. However, it is 5 times as expensive as RU so at that price it is unlikely that you’ll be able to afford it at an effective daily dose (50mg =£3.50ish per day vs £0.70 for RU). The way I get round this is by alternating, one day RU, one day CB.
Many RU users have read the forum post about the guys who had heart- related side effects. Whether this is true or not I don’t know. What I do know is that as soon as I read it I got ‘chest pains’ and dropped RU, then I went back on to it months later when I became more desperate and felt no chest pains. It was a psychosomatic side effect, don’t underestimate how powerful this effect is. I also thought I was having heart palpitations on minoxidil after reading that they could be a side effect.
Mixing
Anagenic do sell it in a 5% solution but apparently it loses potency over time so better to mix yourself daily or perhaps weekly. If that seems like too much hassle by all means go for the pre-mixed but don’t be put off by the idea of mixing this yourself. It’s so so easy. It takes me about 3 minutes and is just part of my routine now, I don’t even think about it. Absolutely worth the time. I bought a mini scale that can measure 0.001g from amazon and I measure 50mg every day then pour it straight from the measuring dish into a beaker. Then I take a pipette with measurements on the side and suck up 1ml of Redken Cerafil Stemoxydine. Some people mix it with alcohol and PG but I got more hair breakage when using this. I drop the stemox into the beaker and squeeze it in and out until the powder mixes into the stemoxydine. Then I apply this to the front of my scalp and rub it in hard, I wear latex gloves for this. A tip for easy application is to keep your hair short so that 1ml is enough to get good coverage. This way it hits all the hair follicles. Mine is shaved at the sides and buzzed to 1cm on top. You could part your hair methodically if it’s longer than this, which I used to do, but it took ages so I just cut it short and now I am very happy with this solution. I take minoxidil orally so don’t apply it topically in the mornings, just at night as I didn’t want to dilute RU/CB topically but you could wait a couple of hours between RU and minoxidil if you prefer topical minoxidil. I buy RU from anagenic inc- it isn’t expensive- and CB from Wuhan Pharma through Alibaba. Kane shop sells both but their CB is a bit more expensive. Delivered to your door, couldn’t be easier, if you can get it tested by a local university then even better. Store RU in the freezer and CB in the fridge. Derek from More Plates More Dates and Kevin Mann use this drug so their youtube channels may be useful for more info on them.
Micro Needling
I am looking in to this at the moment but it seems like there is some evidence for it being beneficial. If I understand correctly it works against the fibrosis in the scalp. By causing small wounds the scalp tissue is stimulated to heal and it seems that the body doesn’t distinguish between skin cells and hair follicles
when repairing the wound. Feel free to correct me on this as I am no expert. Most people micro-needle or dermaroll at 1-1.5mm once or twice a week. The Hairliciously Youtube channel has a good demo for how to use it. Best used in conjunction with a finasteride/dutasteride and minoxidil regimen to maximise the result rather than as a standalone treatment. Best to leave 12 hours between needling and applying minoxidil. Also I wouldn’t advise combining it with RU therapy as it will allow RU to easily enter the blood stream. We want to minimise this as we don’t know what it does systemically. It seems like CB (if it really is CB that we are receiving) is okay to use with needling as it metabolises to cortexalone in the blood, which is apparently harmless.
Minoxidil:Always use in addition to anti androgens (finasteride/dutasteride) not instead of. finasteride/dutasteride and minoxidil work in synergy so 1+1=3. To extend the length of time you maintain your hair to the maximum it may be best to use minoxidil as a last boost when anti androgens are no longer holding on. There is some debate with this and there is no definite answer on when is best to use it but certainly not within the first year of Finasteride. You need to make sure you are stable on anti androgens first. Minoxidil is a growth stimulant and doesn’t combat androgens. If you use it too early, or in place of anti-androgens, it might seem like you’re maintaining with it but it isn’t a long term solution, it’s masking the damage that’s going on by pumping up the thickness of the hair shafts making hair density appear greater. In a few years the minoxidil-dependent hair will likely fall out if used in mon-therapy. I guess it’s best to use it whenever you feel you’re stable, but you want a bit more density to be happy with your hair situation. Also, many people get no benefit from minoxidil so don’t expect to, apparently this is to do with some people lacking a sulphur transferase enzyme or something? Try oral loniten tablets before giving up with minoxidil if rogaine foam doesn’t work for you- some people only get results when taken orally. I have heard that many people get very good results from 2.5-5mg loniten daily.
Alternative Treatments and Vitamins.
Basically, don’t bother. Androgenic Alopecia is a difficult thing to treat and herbal remedies are just not potent enough to have any effect. Androgenic alopecia is a caused by androgens binding to receptors in the hair follicles and causing them to miniaturise. It is stating the obvious to say that to address this problem you have protect your hair follicles from these androgens with drugs that either lower DHT levels systemically (finasteride, dutasteride) or stop androgens binding to hair on the scalp (ru, cb). Lasers, vitamins, PRP etc do not address androgens so are of little to no value. Topical spironalactone, saw palmetto/ other herbal remedies are all a waste of time too, spend your money on something that works. Maybe your hair might be slightly healthier with them in addition, once stable on a solid anti-androgen regimen but it won’t be possible to maintain on any of these alone. With any treatment always use the most effective one first- you can add vitamins as a ‘nice to have’ if you like later. I have used all of these treatments and honestly they are just a huge waste hair and money. Hair loss due to nutrient deficiency in the first world is extremely rare. You would need to have a SEVERE biotin/iron/ vitamin D deficiency for years for it to have an effect on your hair. If you are nutrient deficient and experiencing hair loss then it’s likely to be unrelated. Also vitamin deficiency doesn’t cause patterned hair loss and miniaturisation, only telogen effluvium which is diffuse thinning. Diet has almost no correlation with pattern hair loss.
These treatments are topical anti-androgens which work by binding to the AR receptor of the hair follicle- displacing Test and DHT which damage the hair. Unfortunately RU58841 has only had one human trial which was not completed so as a drug we are not really sure if it has any long term effects. Clascoterone seems similar in potency at the same dose and it is currently being trialled by Cassiopea and seems safe, if it is real CB that we are getting.
Most people will probably stop at Dutasteride as this is the last FDA regulated treatment (other than spironolactone/bica etc). Going further than dutasteride is taking more risk as we are buying from Chinese labs rather than regulated pharmacists. I am perhaps willing to go further because I have found hair loss very painful so I am doing everything that I can to prevent it. Others will probably (more sensibly!) shave their heads and put it behind them after dutasteride. It may not be useful to hear my rationale but here it is, just in case anyone else is struggling with the decision. I feel that I am fighting an immediate danger to my quality of life- losing my hair. This is the battle I am fighting NOW, with the weapons that are available. These weapons are limited but that’s all we have, that doesn’t mean I’m going to give up. We have one shot and when the hair is gone, it’s gone and for my peace of mind I need to know I am doing everything that I can.
Both of these drugs are particularly useful for protecting the hair line because both finasteride and dutasteride tend to not be very effective at the front so they are a great addition to a finasteride/dutasteride based regimen. It is worth noting that, though less damaging than DHT, Testosterone also causes miniaturisation. CB and RU are the only easily available treatments that work against Testosterone. I wouldn’t advise them to be used instead of finasteride/ dutasteride because alone they are unlikely to be powerful enough to stop hair loss, but work well in addition to oral finasteride/dutasteride. I apply 5% solution once per day but in time I may well up this to twice.
It stands to reason that we should all be using Clascoterone rather than RU as we have more safety data. However, it is 5 times as expensive as RU so at that price it is unlikely that you’ll be able to afford it at an effective daily dose (50mg =£3.50ish per day vs £0.70 for RU). The way I get round this is by alternating, one day RU, one day CB.
Many RU users have read the forum post about the guys who had heart- related side effects. Whether this is true or not I don’t know. What I do know is that as soon as I read it I got ‘chest pains’ and dropped RU, then I went back on to it months later when I became more desperate and felt no chest pains. It was a psychosomatic side effect, don’t underestimate how powerful this effect is. I also thought I was having heart palpitations on minoxidil after reading that they could be a side effect.
Mixing
Anagenic do sell it in a 5% solution but apparently it loses potency over time so better to mix yourself daily or perhaps weekly. If that seems like too much hassle by all means go for the pre-mixed but don’t be put off by the idea of mixing this yourself. It’s so so easy. It takes me about 3 minutes and is just part of my routine now, I don’t even think about it. Absolutely worth the time. I bought a mini scale that can measure 0.001g from amazon and I measure 50mg every day then pour it straight from the measuring dish into a beaker. Then I take a pipette with measurements on the side and suck up 1ml of Redken Cerafil Stemoxydine. Some people mix it with alcohol and PG but I got more hair breakage when using this. I drop the stemox into the beaker and squeeze it in and out until the powder mixes into the stemoxydine. Then I apply this to the front of my scalp and rub it in hard, I wear latex gloves for this. A tip for easy application is to keep your hair short so that 1ml is enough to get good coverage. This way it hits all the hair follicles. Mine is shaved at the sides and buzzed to 1cm on top. You could part your hair methodically if it’s longer than this, which I used to do, but it took ages so I just cut it short and now I am very happy with this solution. I take minoxidil orally so don’t apply it topically in the mornings, just at night as I didn’t want to dilute RU/CB topically but you could wait a couple of hours between RU and minoxidil if you prefer topical minoxidil. I buy RU from anagenic inc- it isn’t expensive- and CB from Wuhan Pharma through Alibaba. Kane shop sells both but their CB is a bit more expensive. Delivered to your door, couldn’t be easier, if you can get it tested by a local university then even better. Store RU in the freezer and CB in the fridge. Derek from More Plates More Dates and Kevin Mann use this drug so their youtube channels may be useful for more info on them.
Micro Needling
I am looking in to this at the moment but it seems like there is some evidence for it being beneficial. If I understand correctly it works against the fibrosis in the scalp. By causing small wounds the scalp tissue is stimulated to heal and it seems that the body doesn’t distinguish between skin cells and hair follicles
when repairing the wound. Feel free to correct me on this as I am no expert. Most people micro-needle or dermaroll at 1-1.5mm once or twice a week. The Hairliciously Youtube channel has a good demo for how to use it. Best used in conjunction with a finasteride/dutasteride and minoxidil regimen to maximise the result rather than as a standalone treatment. Best to leave 12 hours between needling and applying minoxidil. Also I wouldn’t advise combining it with RU therapy as it will allow RU to easily enter the blood stream. We want to minimise this as we don’t know what it does systemically. It seems like CB (if it really is CB that we are receiving) is okay to use with needling as it metabolises to cortexalone in the blood, which is apparently harmless.
Minoxidil:Always use in addition to anti androgens (finasteride/dutasteride) not instead of. finasteride/dutasteride and minoxidil work in synergy so 1+1=3. To extend the length of time you maintain your hair to the maximum it may be best to use minoxidil as a last boost when anti androgens are no longer holding on. There is some debate with this and there is no definite answer on when is best to use it but certainly not within the first year of Finasteride. You need to make sure you are stable on anti androgens first. Minoxidil is a growth stimulant and doesn’t combat androgens. If you use it too early, or in place of anti-androgens, it might seem like you’re maintaining with it but it isn’t a long term solution, it’s masking the damage that’s going on by pumping up the thickness of the hair shafts making hair density appear greater. In a few years the minoxidil-dependent hair will likely fall out if used in mon-therapy. I guess it’s best to use it whenever you feel you’re stable, but you want a bit more density to be happy with your hair situation. Also, many people get no benefit from minoxidil so don’t expect to, apparently this is to do with some people lacking a sulphur transferase enzyme or something? Try oral loniten tablets before giving up with minoxidil if rogaine foam doesn’t work for you- some people only get results when taken orally. I have heard that many people get very good results from 2.5-5mg loniten daily.
Alternative Treatments and Vitamins.
Basically, don’t bother. Androgenic Alopecia is a difficult thing to treat and herbal remedies are just not potent enough to have any effect. Androgenic alopecia is a caused by androgens binding to receptors in the hair follicles and causing them to miniaturise. It is stating the obvious to say that to address this problem you have protect your hair follicles from these androgens with drugs that either lower DHT levels systemically (finasteride, dutasteride) or stop androgens binding to hair on the scalp (ru, cb). Lasers, vitamins, PRP etc do not address androgens so are of little to no value. Topical spironalactone, saw palmetto/ other herbal remedies are all a waste of time too, spend your money on something that works. Maybe your hair might be slightly healthier with them in addition, once stable on a solid anti-androgen regimen but it won’t be possible to maintain on any of these alone. With any treatment always use the most effective one first- you can add vitamins as a ‘nice to have’ if you like later. I have used all of these treatments and honestly they are just a huge waste hair and money. Hair loss due to nutrient deficiency in the first world is extremely rare. You would need to have a SEVERE biotin/iron/ vitamin D deficiency for years for it to have an effect on your hair. If you are nutrient deficient and experiencing hair loss then it’s likely to be unrelated. Also vitamin deficiency doesn’t cause patterned hair loss and miniaturisation, only telogen effluvium which is diffuse thinning. Diet has almost no correlation with pattern hair loss.