michael barry
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http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum ... nswer.html
This is one of the drugs follica will probably use.
This is one of the drugs follica will probably use.
Getfitinib growth pictures........
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diffuse propecia
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very impressive, if this happens by accident with this drug then just imagine what we would get if follica designed a process to cure hair loss with it. Imagine the possibilities, super dense color rich hair or they could just fail and never reproduce the results or improve upon them.
MEANSTREET
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how come that guy has a hairy nose?
Is this guy gonna have to shave his nose now everyday?
On a serious note, I very much doubt Getfitnib will be used as part of the protocol, the potential of life threathening side effects would make it next to impossible to sell to prospective doctors and clients. Hair for irrevocable lung damage does not seem like a fair trade-off, no matter how desperate you are!
On a serious note, I very much doubt Getfitnib will be used as part of the protocol, the potential of life threathening side effects would make it next to impossible to sell to prospective doctors and clients. Hair for irrevocable lung damage does not seem like a fair trade-off, no matter how desperate you are!
michael barry
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Diffuse Propecia wrote:
.................Exactly. Im very excited about what Follica will come up with. Im very very confident that they will have the first REAL treatment for baldness that works. Some of the guys fooling around trying to do it themselves might grow a few hairs, but the professional researchers and experts they have assembled will come up with a topical and a wounding protocol that will no doubt be able to grow pretty darn thick hair. They even have a method for hair removal that is really permanent in places you dont want it in their patent. Being able to "watch" hairs develop on post-natal humans, will also give them the ability to really see what happens when hair forms and probably exactly what genes encode for baldness, early greying, curls, you name it.
Let me explain about the photos and follica in a language everyone can understand.
Follica ran series of tests on human skin that was transplanted onto immunodeficient mice. When immuno-deficient mice have their skin dermabraded, removing the top layers of the dermis, the skin's epidermal stem cells make BRAND NEW hairs. This happens on even genetically hairless mice. There is an "embryonic window" of time where the skin reverts back to a primitive state after the top layers of the dermis are removed. The stem cells in the skin can either re-make skin, or be coaxed into making new hair follicles chemically.
Follica tried this with human skin on the mice. It was a success. They got human hair everytime they tried it. Its experiment number 7 in their patent.
However, a human being has an immune system. We have seen that miniaturized vellus hairs from male pattern baldness-men can be transplanted to immuno-deficient mice and shockingly regrow suprisingly well if the androgen levels in the mice are low, even as well as normal hairs from the wreath transplanted to the same mice. Our immune systems might be a factor they will have to overcome by using anti-inflammatories, anti-bacterials, antimicrobails, and especially antihistamines. If all else fails, they can suppress the immune system with cytotoxic drugs (used for organ rejection) for the ten day period. There are topical immunosuppressants for eczema and psoriasis commonly used now. They have been very effective.
Follica tested several other drugs with this process to see if bigger and better and thicker hair could be "made". They found that it could. Epidermal Growth Factor antagonizing cancer drugs (like getfitinib) could make bigger and better and thicker hairs if used at the right time after wouding (probably after 3 to 5 days). Minoxidil, fiberblast growth factor, beta catenin, and a few other things were shown in experiments to increase yield.
The people in these two photographs had been on chemotherapy. The man with the bald head eventually died from his cancer. Chemo devastates the immune system. The reason these two people got this growth is almost assuredly sunburn. The nose-growth photo could have been sun or an irritated nose that was "blown' several times or scratched perhaps during allergy season. At any rate, epidermal disruption took place while the immunity was weak and the drug's effects were in evidence-------so the skin stem cells being unable to make new skin to heal the wounds......made hair instead.
Follica's patent calls for epidermal disruption (abrasion) to take place....................then a wait of at least three days for the wound to re-epilithialize (keratinocytes will cover the wound), and then to use a TOPICAL formulation of a EGF-antagonist (like getfitinib) and the other adjuvants (probably finasteride, minoxidil, an antihistamine, an anti-inflammatory, an anti-microbial, and a retinoid).
Several of the other adjuvants are probably to keep the immune system from inflamming the wounded area, so that hair will develop there. Cotsarialis has found in mice if the skin is inflammed in baby mice, their hair wont form correctly if at all. Certain prostaglandins (D2), can inhibit the hair formation and its first cycle (mice hair cycles in less than a month). If necessary (but we hope not), a topical immunosuppressant might have to be used. The patent names five possible ones---one is used for eczema and one for psoriasis if memory serves.
The second follica patent calls for a "kit" that a dermatologist will have with the cream formulation therein. Most likely you will get the balding area dermabraded or lasered to remove the top layers of the dermis........................and after 3 to 5 days (the dermatologist will look and see if re-epilithialization is complete) the topical will be administed daily. All the stuff will be in the topical most likely.
The people in the picture just had compromised immune sytems and were on getfitinib. Just imagine how much hair they can make grow by adding minoxidil and other stimulators (maybe FGF) at the exact right time. This really is a very exciting development in dermatology. The hair follicle, believe it or not, is the most important thing in dermatology because it gives the renewal signals to the skin. Perhaps someday, they will be able to silence whatever genes are associated with baldness during the ten days or so you use this topical.........................making the hair created like your donor hair in your hippocratic wreath----very resistant to male hormone.
This is beginning tests at Harvard Medical already. Initially they are just dermabrading bald scalp on men and seeing what natural biochemcial pathways are being activated in vivo to see what pathways they will have to stimulate or supress. I thought guys here would appreciate seeing these photos though. If it can grow hair on your nose or a long-bald frontal lobe.............................then the prospects for growing hair on receeded areas or bald spots looks pretty good.
.................Exactly. Im very excited about what Follica will come up with. Im very very confident that they will have the first REAL treatment for baldness that works. Some of the guys fooling around trying to do it themselves might grow a few hairs, but the professional researchers and experts they have assembled will come up with a topical and a wounding protocol that will no doubt be able to grow pretty darn thick hair. They even have a method for hair removal that is really permanent in places you dont want it in their patent. Being able to "watch" hairs develop on post-natal humans, will also give them the ability to really see what happens when hair forms and probably exactly what genes encode for baldness, early greying, curls, you name it.
Let me explain about the photos and follica in a language everyone can understand.
Follica ran series of tests on human skin that was transplanted onto immunodeficient mice. When immuno-deficient mice have their skin dermabraded, removing the top layers of the dermis, the skin's epidermal stem cells make BRAND NEW hairs. This happens on even genetically hairless mice. There is an "embryonic window" of time where the skin reverts back to a primitive state after the top layers of the dermis are removed. The stem cells in the skin can either re-make skin, or be coaxed into making new hair follicles chemically.
Follica tried this with human skin on the mice. It was a success. They got human hair everytime they tried it. Its experiment number 7 in their patent.
However, a human being has an immune system. We have seen that miniaturized vellus hairs from male pattern baldness-men can be transplanted to immuno-deficient mice and shockingly regrow suprisingly well if the androgen levels in the mice are low, even as well as normal hairs from the wreath transplanted to the same mice. Our immune systems might be a factor they will have to overcome by using anti-inflammatories, anti-bacterials, antimicrobails, and especially antihistamines. If all else fails, they can suppress the immune system with cytotoxic drugs (used for organ rejection) for the ten day period. There are topical immunosuppressants for eczema and psoriasis commonly used now. They have been very effective.
Follica tested several other drugs with this process to see if bigger and better and thicker hair could be "made". They found that it could. Epidermal Growth Factor antagonizing cancer drugs (like getfitinib) could make bigger and better and thicker hairs if used at the right time after wouding (probably after 3 to 5 days). Minoxidil, fiberblast growth factor, beta catenin, and a few other things were shown in experiments to increase yield.
The people in these two photographs had been on chemotherapy. The man with the bald head eventually died from his cancer. Chemo devastates the immune system. The reason these two people got this growth is almost assuredly sunburn. The nose-growth photo could have been sun or an irritated nose that was "blown' several times or scratched perhaps during allergy season. At any rate, epidermal disruption took place while the immunity was weak and the drug's effects were in evidence-------so the skin stem cells being unable to make new skin to heal the wounds......made hair instead.
Follica's patent calls for epidermal disruption (abrasion) to take place....................then a wait of at least three days for the wound to re-epilithialize (keratinocytes will cover the wound), and then to use a TOPICAL formulation of a EGF-antagonist (like getfitinib) and the other adjuvants (probably finasteride, minoxidil, an antihistamine, an anti-inflammatory, an anti-microbial, and a retinoid).
Several of the other adjuvants are probably to keep the immune system from inflamming the wounded area, so that hair will develop there. Cotsarialis has found in mice if the skin is inflammed in baby mice, their hair wont form correctly if at all. Certain prostaglandins (D2), can inhibit the hair formation and its first cycle (mice hair cycles in less than a month). If necessary (but we hope not), a topical immunosuppressant might have to be used. The patent names five possible ones---one is used for eczema and one for psoriasis if memory serves.
The second follica patent calls for a "kit" that a dermatologist will have with the cream formulation therein. Most likely you will get the balding area dermabraded or lasered to remove the top layers of the dermis........................and after 3 to 5 days (the dermatologist will look and see if re-epilithialization is complete) the topical will be administed daily. All the stuff will be in the topical most likely.
The people in the picture just had compromised immune sytems and were on getfitinib. Just imagine how much hair they can make grow by adding minoxidil and other stimulators (maybe FGF) at the exact right time. This really is a very exciting development in dermatology. The hair follicle, believe it or not, is the most important thing in dermatology because it gives the renewal signals to the skin. Perhaps someday, they will be able to silence whatever genes are associated with baldness during the ten days or so you use this topical.........................making the hair created like your donor hair in your hippocratic wreath----very resistant to male hormone.
This is beginning tests at Harvard Medical already. Initially they are just dermabrading bald scalp on men and seeing what natural biochemcial pathways are being activated in vivo to see what pathways they will have to stimulate or supress. I thought guys here would appreciate seeing these photos though. If it can grow hair on your nose or a long-bald frontal lobe.............................then the prospects for growing hair on receeded areas or bald spots looks pretty good.
sphlanx2006
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elguapo said:
+1 :bravo:
// I just dont see any of the info about the accidental hair regrowth. Michael when i click at your link i only see a flame thread debating if follica has been tested or humans or not and a poster has this pictures attached with no info on what they are. Am i missing something?
michael barry
Senior Member
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Did you READ my post?
I told you exactly how that hair grew---------epidermal disruption+weak immune status + EGF-antagonsim post skin-re-epilithialization. Basically the follica process. Thats why there is hair on that man's head.
Its not "Regrowth". Its NEW HAIR, formed out of his skin's stem cells.
Read my post again.
If the ONLY difference between the mice and humans is the immune system then I don't see why simply adding a topical immnosupressor like Tacrolimus wouldn't be all we need to achieve good results? If it's really the immune system that causes the need for EGFR inhibitors and/or WNT signalers then why not just slam the first door (the immune system) shut instead of worrying about all of the others further down stream??
Just apply some Tacrolimus to one area for a few days, dermabrade the same area while continuing to apply Tac for another 10 days and see what you get.
Just apply some Tacrolimus to one area for a few days, dermabrade the same area while continuing to apply Tac for another 10 days and see what you get.
diffuse propecia
Established Member
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michael barry said:
I keep on reading that finasteride may need to be used as a step in the treatment if so then what If finasteride stops working for me by the time follica arrives, as it does for so many people, when I receive the treatment would it not work correctly or rather produce balding follicles due to the finasteride part of the treatment not working, if so then it would be better for me to save the use of finasteride for follica instead of now or am I mistaking something here?
one more thing, we know that androgen receptors can be upregulated, as does occur when you begin finasteride/dutasteride but if you were to quit these treatments then would it be possible for androgen receptor down regulation to occur?
btw, good post.
lucy923
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michael barry said:
Great post Michael.....this is a very interesting topic here and I was wondering your thoughts on how Follica might work for someone say in the earlier stages of male pattern baldness with some diffuse thinning or thinning in the temples. Will this work for people in to say have smaller sessions done to almost chase their hairloss to thicken things up or will major baldspots already need to be present already to do this.
Also, I know the procedure is roughly 10-14 days, but would regrowth most likely occur faster than say a transplant??
michael barry
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Ive contemplated this myself. The mice in experiment number 7 (human skin on SCID mice) grew human hair out of that human skin with no EGF antagonism at all. They just didn't have an immune function.
First and for most I would like to say hello to every one in the room, I have a radical idea that I have been using for the past year " I actually only tried it a few times" but until recently " Like the past 4 to 6 months" have not really taken seriously. Let me start with a bit of my history leading to me becoming bald, Well I have been going bald for the last 5 years of my life, I have blond hair so even the miniature hairs are hard to see unless you look up close. For the most part i just use clippers to shave my head about every week or so to keep the sides short, Well when i was about 20 years of age i started to get very oily skin on my face and on the top of my head, It lead to other skin issues and certainly my blading very quickly. I never really noticed any issues with my hair until my skin becoming oily, I had always had very think and strong hair " I would have never believed i was going to be bald". So i can say confidently that because of my skin becoming very oily my hair stated to fall out. Now that you know a little bit about my story let me get to the point. So how did i come across this radical idea im talking about? I had some facial skin issues because of my oily skin, So i thought to my self well let me just remove this oily substance from my skin and see what the effects are... Immediately 2 days later i noticed a huge difference in my skin, My skin tone looked a lot healthier and so on. I did not have any issues with my skin for about a month, Untill the oils started to build up in my skin once again. So i thought to my self if this works for my facial skin its gotta work for my scalp. So for about the first 6 months i only really applied this technique about 3 time, Until about 6 months ago i started to actually see some promising results, So i stated to get very interested, A lot of people out there will proudly counter this claim but i can argue that the excess oil build up in your hair follicle's have a huge roll in your hair thining if not the cause of hair thining completely. So enough with the yap-pin here is this radical idea i have come up with
1. I shave my head completely with clippers, I have never tried to shave my head with a razor so try it it may actually work better but clippers seem to do the job.
2. I run some warm water over my head for about 5 min. to open up those follicles
3. I get a plastic card like a credit card or debit card, or something equivalent to.
4. Once my head is completely wet and my follicles have opened a bit, I just place the card at the back of my head at about a 45 degree angle and push the card firmly on the skin and push the card foreword
5. I will keep rinsing my head with water after every swipe to keep the skin lubricated
6. I will keep on doing this all around my head " where i'm bald " until i see minimal secretion of this white looking puss. I know it sounds disgusting but its not really puss it actually has the consistency of putty. It looks like a greyish colour to it some times darker
6. After that i like to use jojoba oil to protect my skin, The oils will get into the follicle it self but will not clog the follicle
and that's it, I can say for sure i have seen results but you have to be willing to shave your head . You just cant get the card close enough to the skin it you have longer hair..
Let me know what you think...
1. I shave my head completely with clippers, I have never tried to shave my head with a razor so try it it may actually work better but clippers seem to do the job.
2. I run some warm water over my head for about 5 min. to open up those follicles
3. I get a plastic card like a credit card or debit card, or something equivalent to.
4. Once my head is completely wet and my follicles have opened a bit, I just place the card at the back of my head at about a 45 degree angle and push the card firmly on the skin and push the card foreword
5. I will keep rinsing my head with water after every swipe to keep the skin lubricated
6. I will keep on doing this all around my head " where i'm bald " until i see minimal secretion of this white looking puss. I know it sounds disgusting but its not really puss it actually has the consistency of putty. It looks like a greyish colour to it some times darker
6. After that i like to use jojoba oil to protect my skin, The oils will get into the follicle it self but will not clog the follicle
and that's it, I can say for sure i have seen results but you have to be willing to shave your head . You just cant get the card close enough to the skin it you have longer hair..
Let me know what you think...