german study:retinoic acid causes loss!

willywonka

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This is a German study that tries to identify the mechanism behind retinoid-induced hair loss.

Retinoids are a form of vitamin A and are used orally to treat various forms of cancer and topically, to treat acne and psoriasis. One of the side effects is diffuse hair loss, though exactly how it’s induced has not been examined prior to this study.

In this study, hair follicles from a human scalp were placed in a culture dish in a lab and exposed to all-trans retinoic acid (ATRA), also known as tretinoin or Retin-A. At the start of the study the follicles were all in the anagen (growing) phase. After 2 days of treatment, the hair strands produced by the ATRA-treated follicles grew significantly slower than those of the control group which were not exposed to anything.

After 6 days 80% of the ATRA-treated follicles had entered a catagen-like phase, compared to 30% of the control follicles. The catagen phase follows anagen and precedes the telogen or resting phase. During the catagen phase the follicle shrinks and the dermal papilla breaks away to rest below the shrunken follicle until the end of telogen phase when it reconnects with the follicle again and initiates growth of new hair. The dermal papilla, which can be found in the hair follicle, act like a control station for the follicle growth phases and respond to stimulation by androgens (male sex hormones).

The findings in ATRA-treated follicles corresponded to an increased cell death (apoptosis) and a decreased amount of cells proliferating (Ki67-positive).

Transforming growth factor (TGF) beta is believed to play a key role in the transformation from the anagen to the catagen phase, the researchers therefore examined what, if any, effect ATRA had on follicular expression of TGF-beta. In the untreated anagen follicles, TGF-beta was present in the outer root sheath, in the untreated catagen follicles, it was also present in the shrinking hair strand. After 4 days of ATRA-treatment, TGF-beta was significantly up-regulated in the dermal papilla and dermal sheath of anagen follicles. The researchers then tried TGF-beta neutralizing antibodies, which inhibit the action of TGF-beta, and treatment with the antibodies was at least partially effective in inhibiting the retinoid-induced hair loss. This seems to indicate that TGF-beta is, indeed, one of the culprits in retinoid-induced hair loss.

ATRA was shown to cause follicles to prematurely enter the catagen phase, and it was also shown to up-regulate the expression of TGF-beta. Inhibition of TGF-beta was partially effective in abolishing the ATRA growth suppression, showing that TGF-beta is one of the main factors in this pathway. The study suggests a topical TGF-beta receptor II inhibitor in conjunction with retinoid-treatment, could be used to avoid hair loss as a side effect of Retinoid treatment.


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WithTheLidOff

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can someone explain this stuff in English to all us stupid balders? How does this impact ME? what should I do as a result? DUh..thankyou.
 

willywonka

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don't use retin-a
 

willywonka

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[quote="1derphul] lt's also naive of us to use it without seeing studies that say otherwise. As for me I'll stop using it until I read more studies.
 

willywonka

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willywonka

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TynanW said:
willywonka said:
don't use retin-a
...if you live in a culture dish
how did you know?Have you been spying on me?!p.s I'm still not using it. The study mentions diffuse hairloss so therefore there is some clinical cases where there has been.
 

dead

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willywonka said:
The study mentions diffuse hairloss...

..so therefore there is some clinical cases where there has been.

I take it English is not your first language ?
 

willywonka

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TynanW said:
willywonka said:
The study mentions diffuse hairloss...

..so therefore there is some clinical cases where there has been.

I take it English is not your first language ?
I take it politeness is not your first approach?
 

1derphull

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willywonka said:
[quote="1derphul] lt's also naive of us to use it without seeing studies that say otherwise. As for me I'll stop using it until I read more studies.

You want to cite one study, specifically one done in a culture dish... among all of the other in humans that show that retinoic acid is beneficial for our circumstances? I don't care if you stop using it, just stop playing scaremonger.
 

dead

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willywonka said:
TynanW said:
willywonka said:
The study mentions diffuse hairloss...

..so therefore there is some clinical cases where there has been.

I take it English is not your first language ?
I take it politeness is not your first approach?

Sometimes, but come on !!! Have you read that line ??!!

"..so therefore there is some clinical cases where there has been."

LOL !!!

No offense intended.


PS why did you dump 'Thin=Depressed" ?
 

Bryan

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Besides the issue that it was an in vitro study, there is also the possibility of a biphasic effect: Retin-A may stimulate hair growth in carefully-chosen topical doses (Bazzano et al), but it may well be toxic to hair follicles in larger doses (BTW, the same appears to be true for minoxidil).

Bryan
 

dead

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Bryan said:
Besides the issue that it was an in vitro study, there is also the possibility of a biphasic effect: Retin-A may stimulate hair growth in carefully-chosen topical doses (Bazzano et al), but it may well be toxic to hair follicles in larger doses (BTW, the same appears to be true for minoxidil).

Bryan

Bryan, what kind of doses are we talking about for toxicity with regard to minoxidil.
 

Bryan

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All I know about that is what Dr. Proctor has said about it on alt.baldspot a long time ago. My vague recollection is that minoxidil stimulated cultured human hair follicles just like it does in vivo, but when the amount was increased substantially (and I mean like 10 times or 20 times...somewhere along those lines), it started having the opposite effect: it started suppressing the growth of the hair follicles. Sorry I can't remember much more than that...it was several years ago.

It probably doesn't have any real relevance to our use of topical minoxidil, because in the real-world, the absorption of minoxidil by the skin (and hopefully hair follicles) is probably limited to a level that's well below that danger point. At least, I _hope_ it is! :freaked:

The major point I wanted to make here is just that some of these drugs we use could conceivably have OPPOSITE effects on hair follicles, depending on the dose used. Yet another reason to exercise caution, especially with Retin-A. It may not be possible to overdose with topical minoxidil, but it certainly IS possible to overdose with Retin-A, at the very least from the skin's point of view, if not the follicle's.

Bryan
 

dead

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Bryan said:
...when the amount was increased substantially (and I mean like 10 times or 20 times...somewhere along those lines)


From what baseline ?

hhhmmm Xandrox 15, 3 times a day anyone ?? :freaked:
 
G

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Thank you for this very good post, Willy Wonka! It's been known for a long time that Retin-A can cause hair loss. It's one of the well known side effects of Roaccutane, a medicine to treat acne fulgaris.

I've no clue why Dr. Lee is still selling this stuff in his minoxidil, where it has probably only an adverse effect on hair growth.
 
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