dutasteride loading dose - bryan etc

[powersam]

hey after reading those charts/graphs on suppression vs time for dutasteride i kinda thought that a loading dose might be the way to get fast results on dutasteride . ie taking 2.5 or 5mg daily for the first month or two and then going down to the .5 mg level having achieved sufficient available levels of dutasteride in the bloodstream. Please correct me if this is wrong.

On another topic , i've been using spironolactone and dutasteride to great effect as far as i can tell. Encouraging results to say the least. I wonder if raised levels of testosterone after the removal of dht from the scalp are the reason for little regrowth in most people. If this was the case spironolactone would definately be the answer. In my case it certainly seems to have been . I htink i'm totally happy with my regimen now , can settle down and stop thinking bout hair

 

[Thinning]

I saw a chart once that showed how taking a higher dose did help lower the DHT levels faster, but you need not take it for a full month, it was more like a week. If I find that chart I will post a link.

 

[Thinning]

Here it is.

http://www.hairsite2.com/images/dutas_analysis.jpg

Looks like its 1.5mg/day for 10days to start the program, then 0.5mg/day to maintain.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Good chart, first time I've seen the results of differing dutasteride doses presented graphically so its posting is much appreciated :salut:

Slarti

 

[bombscience]

wow! this is an interesting chart, where did you find such a thing?

I wish i had known this when i started. I'm about at the 100 day mark. No results yet though.

 

[Buffboy]

This is most def. an interesting chart. But if I get this chart right, then you get the exact same results by taking Dutas .5 mg once a day and every other day???

EDIT: sorry, my bad. But it only decreases dht in the scalp by 5%.

What I don't get is, how does this DHT-thing work, because you block 90% DHT in the body, but only 55% on the scalp? Why not more?
And how can you block the rest. Are there other enzymes to produce DHT besides the two Alpha (or is it Beta?)?

 

[Bryan]

What I don't get is, how does this DHT-thing work, because you block 90% DHT in the body, but only 55% on the scalp? Why not more?

It's completely pointless to discuss levels of scalp DHT, because NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE how they are affected by these drugs. Different studies have produced conflicting results.

Bryan

 

[Buffboy]

What I don't get is, how does this DHT-thing work, because you block 90% DHT in the body, but only 55% on the scalp? Why not more?

It's completely pointless to discuss levels of scalp DHT, because NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE how they are affected by these drugs. Different studies have produced conflicting results.

Bryan

I just saw this on a website:

0.5mg Dutasteride inhibits ~ 92% serum DHT and 55% scalp DHT
2.5mg Dutasteride inhibits ~ 95% serum DHT and 82% scalp DHT

This basically means, that you will achieve significantly better results by taking five capsules a day than only one. Because it's the scalp DHT you have to reduce.

So what I'm saying is that I think taking 2.5 mg Dutasteride a day is being VERY close to a cure against hairloss for MOST people.

But as seen below you will still supress scalp DHT much better using 0.5 mg Dutasteride a day than taking 1 mg Finasteride.

1.0 mg Finasteride inhibits ~ 70% serum DHT and 38% scalp DHT

 

[mvpsoft]

What I don't get is, how does this DHT-thing work, because you block 90% DHT in the body, but only 55% on the scalp? Why not more?

It's completely pointless to discuss levels of scalp DHT, because NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE how they are affected by these drugs. Different studies have produced conflicting results.

If that's the case, then how do dutasteride and finasteride combat hair loss? Assume for the sake of argument that they have minimal or no effect on scalp DHT. If that's the case, how can they be effective? If they must have some effect on scalp DHT to be effective at all, then we can at least assume that they do, since they are effective to some degree.

Or is it possible that serum reduction of DHT is by itself a causal factor in inhibiting hair loss?

 

[Bryan]

1.0 mg Finasteride inhibits ~ 70% serum DHT and 38% scalp DHT

I can show you another study that was done by some heavy-hitters in dermatology, and they found that 1 mg of finasteride per day reduced scalp DHT by almost 70%, the same as serum DHT. Like I tried to tell you before, THERE ARE CONFLICTING RESULTS FROM DIFFERENT STUDIES, so it's pointless to throw around those numbers for scalp DHT reduction as if they mean anything!

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

What I don't get is, how does this DHT-thing work, because you block 90% DHT in the body, but only 55% on the scalp? Why not more?

It's completely pointless to discuss levels of scalp DHT, because NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE how they are affected by these drugs. Different studies have produced conflicting results.

If that's the case, then how do dutasteride and finasteride combat hair loss?

HUH?? By reducing DHT production in hair follicles, of course! How else would they work?? :lol:

Assume for the sake of argument that they have minimal or no effect on scalp DHT.

Why on earth would you assume THAT??

If that's the case, how can they be effective? If they must have some effect on scalp DHT to be effective at all, then we can at least assume that they do, since they are effective to some degree.

Of course! That's how they work! Good god!

Bryan

 

[mvpsoft]

Assume for the sake of argument that they have minimal or no effect on scalp DHT.

Why on earth would you assume THAT??

Because in an earlier post you said this:

THERE ARE CONFLICTING RESULTS FROM DIFFERENT STUDIES, so it's pointless to throw around those numbers for scalp DHT reduction as if they mean anything!

I was trying to make the point that although we may not know if the actual numbers for scalp reduction of DHT are 38%, or 70% or whatever, we do know that there has to be scalp reduction of DHT for finasteride and dutasteride to be effective, right? And there is at least some evidence that dutasteride reduces more scalp DHT than does finasteride, and that it is more effective against hair loss. Notice I said "for the sake of argument." I thought my point was obvious, but I guess not.

Now, that gets back to my question of would it be effective to combine a systemic DHT fighter with a topical one such as Revivogen? Isn't eliminating as much scalp DHT as possible a good thing, and would combining both approaches achieve that?

 

[Thinning]

Now, that gets back to my question of would it be effective to combine a systemic DHT fighter with a topical one such as Revivogen? Isn't eliminating as much scalp DHT as possible a good thing, and would combining both approaches achieve that?

Topcial DHT reducers are BS in my mind. None of them has been proven to do squat. And the people selling them aren't pushing for any trials. Stick to the proven meds.

 

[Bryan]

Assume for the sake of argument that they have minimal or no effect on scalp DHT.

Why on earth would you assume THAT??

Because in an earlier post you said this:

THERE ARE CONFLICTING RESULTS FROM DIFFERENT STUDIES, so it's pointless to throw around those numbers for scalp DHT reduction as if they mean anything!

Based on what you say in the rest of your post, I take it you now understand what I said previously?

I was trying to make the point that although we may not know if the actual numbers for scalp reduction of DHT are 38%, or 70% or whatever, we do know that there has to be scalp reduction of DHT for finasteride and dutasteride to be effective, right?

Of course.

And there is at least some evidence that dutasteride reduces more scalp DHT than does finasteride, and that it is more effective against hair loss. Notice I said "for the sake of argument." I thought my point was obvious, but I guess not.

Yes, but like I said before, there's no point in throwing specific numbers around, because we don't know what the ACCURATE numbers are. I thought MY point was obvious.

Now, that gets back to my question of would it be effective to combine a systemic DHT fighter with a topical one such as Revivogen? Isn't eliminating as much scalp DHT as possible a good thing, and would combining both approaches achieve that?

Perhaps, but dutasteride is SO effective at reducing DHT, I think adding Revivogen would be needlessly expensive and redundant. I think Revivogen is only appropriate for people who want to avoid systemic drugs altogether.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

Topcial DHT reducers are BS in my mind. None of them has been proven to do squat.

Do you acknowledge that they've been proven to work in animal models? Do you acknowledge that topical GLA and topical EGCG were also shown to have significant effects in a small human test by the scientists Richard Hiipakka and Shutsung Liao?

Bryan

 

[bombscience]

Topcial DHT reducers are BS in my mind. None of them has been proven to do squat.

Do you acknowledge that they've been proven to work in animal models? Do you acknowledge that topical GLA and topical EGCG were also shown to have significant effects in a small human test by the scientists Richard Hiipakka and Shutsung Liao?

Bryan

Bryan, could you please elaborate on the topicals GLA, and EGCG? This is the first I've heard of such treatments.