drinking grapefruit juice not so good...

CCS

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP3A4

grapefruit juice inhibits CYP3A, a class of enzymes, also the biggest class in the liver. CYPA4 is responsible for metabolizing dutasteride, finasteride, testosterone, and estrogen. (see list of substrates)

Some people on here are drinking grapefruit juice to keep dutasteride levels higher. While this sounds good (inhibit DHT), you need to make sure you are not also inhibiting the breakdown of DHT in the blood. Otherwise it won't go away. Also, other hormones as well. I think a little grapefruit is fine. But I'd not take it every day.

still trying to find out which enzyme metabolizes DHT. Probably this same one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytochrome_P450
 

youngbaldie

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Interesting. I think grapefruit juice should be avoided with most medicines, particularly dutasteride at this point.

I think if anti-androgens work, they work on their own. Its best not to play around with these things. Better not to try and fix something that is not broken.
 

CCS

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... t=Abstract


Department of Environmental and Molecular Toxicology and Marine/Freshwater Biomedical Sciences Center, Agricultural and Life Sciences Building, room 1007, Oregon State University, Corvallis, OR 97331, USA.

In order to satisfy government mandates, numerous studies have been performed categorizing potential endocrine disrupting chemicals as (anti)estrogens or (anti)androgens. We report here that dihydrotestosterone (DHT), a potent, non-aromatizable androgen receptor agonist, induces antiestrogenic responses through direct and/or indirect modulation of vitellogenin (Vg), steroid hormone and total cytochrome P450 levels. DHT and two weak, aromatizable androgens, DHEA and androstenedione (0.05-50 mg/kg per day), were fed to juvenile trout for 2 weeks. DHEA and androstenedione significantly increased blood plasma Vg by up to 30- and 45-fold, respectively (P<0>0.05, F-test). DHT decreases in total P450 content were partially attenuated in males by flutamide co-treatment, but not females, suggesting a partial androgenic mechanism to the P450 decreases as well as a fundamental sex difference responding to androgen receptor binding. Moreover, flutamide alone decreased P450 content by up to 30% in males and 40% in females. These effects may be mediated through direct androgen receptor binding irrespective of whether the binding is agonistic or antagonistic. This study indicates that androgen receptor agonists/antagonists can elicit significant antiestrogenic effects that may not necessarily be mediated through classic receptor binding mechanisms and signal transduction pathways.
 

CCS

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youngbaldie said:
Interesting. I think grapefruit juice should be avoided with most medicines, particularly dutasteride at this point.

I think if anti-androgens work, they work on their own. Its best not to play around with these things. Better not to try and fix something that is not broken.

No, grapefruit juice is a way to get a full dose of dutasteride with half as many pills. The problem is you affect the metabolism of so many other body chemicals, such estrogen and testosterone. Not sure about cholesterol, though it is a steroid too. And you may suppress the metabolism of DHT. Still trying to figure those last two out.

If you eat a grapefruit, take your dutasteride pill with it, so you absorb more dutasteride. But don't eat too much grapefruit.
 

CCS

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http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?art=76

The liver provides enzymes that produce the neurotransmitters Acetylcholine, Nitric Oxide (NO), and the erectile dilator cyclic Guanylate Monophosphate(cGMP). If the liver produces too much Phosphodiesterase (PDE) type 5, which blocks the action of cGMP on the penile erectile tissues, then a man might have trouble with his erection. Also, the liver produces another enzyme called Aromatase that converts testosterone to estradiol and androstenedione to estrone. Too much Aromatase will lower the level of testosterone and reduce libido.

If you have ever felt tired, unexcited, and unable to perform at your best, then you probably do not have enough 5-alpha reductase. 5-alpha reductase is another enzyme produced by the liver to convert testosterone into Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is used to recharge the bioelectricity of the nervous functions during sexual activities. DHT is also used in part to help enlarge you penis if you do penis enlargement exercises. However, too much DHT can lead to unwanted consequences. DHT has been linked to hair loss, prostate inflammation, and acne. The production of too much DHT will trigger those effects.

anyone believe that?
 

youngbaldie

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Really? Thatss good. I would be concerned about the possible boost of testosterone though.

I have been meaning to ask you, have you ever had the familiar scalp itch? Does dutasteride help with this?
 

CCS

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http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

3alpha-hydroxysteroid reductase (3a-HSD) is what breaks down DHT in the blood. Fast.

In most tissues except muscle, testosterone is quickly converted to DHT, which is what carries the androgen signal. I wonder how that affects the aging of different organs, when there is no androgen signal.
 

CCS

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So DHT is not all bad. Just bad in some places, like the skin and prostate. Not elsewhere.

I wonder if 5ar1 or 5ar2 is used in the breasts. Bryan?

Maybe I should not take a high enough dutasteride dose to affect those areas. Actually, even finasteride can affect them, so that answers that. Need to combine finasteride with a good shampoo. Maybe also spironolactone soap. I can see the filler powder being a harsh scrubbing agent for dead skin cells.
 

CCS

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blaze

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I take my dutas daily with a glass of grapefruit juice. Do you think there is a problem with that CCS?
 

CCS

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blaze said:

are you going to read my posts or just lazily ask me for a summery. I answered that already.
 

person

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collegechemistrystudent said:
http://www.********.com/article.asp?art=76

The liver provides enzymes that produce the neurotransmitters Acetylcholine, Nitric Oxide (NO), and the erectile dilator cyclic Guanylate Monophosphate(cGMP). If the liver produces too much Phosphodiesterase (PDE) type 5, which blocks the action of cGMP on the penile erectile tissues, then a man might have trouble with his erection. Also, the liver produces another enzyme called Aromatase that converts testosterone to estradiol and androstenedione to estrone. Too much Aromatase will lower the level of testosterone and reduce libido.

If you have ever felt tired, unexcited, and unable to perform at your best, then you probably do not have enough 5-alpha reductase. 5-alpha reductase is another enzyme produced by the liver to convert testosterone into Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is used to recharge the bioelectricity of the nervous functions during sexual activities. DHT is also used in part to help enlarge you penis if you do penis enlargement exercises. However, too much DHT can lead to unwanted consequences. DHT has been linked to hair loss, prostate inflammation, and acne. The production of too much DHT will trigger those effects.

anyone believe that?

Is the bold text correct?? These articles make me scared to even touch finasteride.
 

CCS

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finasteride only blocks 5ar2. nerve tissue has 5ar1.

a full dose of dutasteride inhibits 5ar1 by 50%. 2.5mg daily inhibits 85% of 5ar1. In the six month trails, most participants tolerated 2.5mg per day, at least in the report.

Grapefruit juice inhibits the breakdown of testosterone and estrogen and dutasteride. It is unknown how much so, but daily sounds risky to me. I only recommend grapefruit juice if you want to save money on avodart by taking 2 or 3 per week with grapefruit juice, after a loading phase.

DHT is not bad. It is just bad for hair, and 50% of prostates. Too much DHT causes acne and large pores, but you need some just to avoid dry skin. Many organs need it. All of them except the muscles. I'm just on proscar now, and want to get extra protection from putting stuff in my shampoo. dutasteride EOD would be safe and inhibit a lot more 5ar2, but I actually want some 5ar2 in some organs. Most guys would not care, though.
 

Bryan

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collegechemistrystudent said:
Too much DHT causes acne and large pores, but you need some just to avoid dry skin.

Sebum isn't correlated with skin moisturization (which is what I assume you're referring to).
 
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