DHT Sensitivity or DHT Levels?

[Goofus]

Do men bald because their follicles are more sensitive, adverse to DHT? Or do men bald because of actually having more DHT than a non-balding man?

Thanks

 

[logia]

Im no expert but I've come to learn that there's a combination of those two, folllicaly sensitivity might be the heaviest stone.

I mean, im anticipating there's lots of people out there with good hair and normal/high DHT levels.
I've also heard DHT production increases as you age, making the follicles taking more hits.

 

[Matgallis]

Im no expert but I've come to learn that there's a combination of those two, folllicaly sensitivity might be the heaviest stone.

I mean, im anticipating there's lots of people out there with good hair and normal/high DHT levels.
I've also heard DHT production increases as you age, making the follicles taking more hits.

I've heard the opposite, DHT production should decrease as you age. This is all just theoretical but from what i've observed, DHT is responsible for hairloss on top of the head, and hair production on chest, back arms and face (unsure of legs as that fills in during puberty)

If this is true, and DHT does in fact increase as you age, then old old men would look like gorillas. Yes old men ARE hairier, but this could occur mostly in the early 20's. Compare a balding 29 year old to a bald 75 year old. The amount of hair on their chests, back, arm and face are about the same.

I've also observed hairloss slowing as age increases. My dad has told me before he lost most of his hair in his 20's and has been maintaining for 30 years.

 

[Goofus]

I'm new and not as knowledgable as most. However, this question seems to be the crux of our issues. If the problem is too much DHT, than a DHT blocker should help us without much detriment (side effects). This would be because we would essentially be decreasing our DHT to normal levels. Yet, if the problem is sensitivity than we could expect negative side effects by using DHT blockers and thusly achieving DHT levels less than normal.
I read about a study with rats (on this website) in which penile tissue becomes less elatic and more fibrous when DHT is blocked. However, was this study done with rats that had previously high DHT levels? Or normal levels and then blocked to abnormally low levels?

 

[s.a.f]

simple answer: its not that we have more DHT it just that our follicles are receptive to it. As opposed to being resistant to it. Thats the diffrence between the hair on top of the head and the hair on the back/sides of the head.

 

[logia]

Im no expert but I've come to learn that there's a combination of those two, folllicaly sensitivity might be the heaviest stone.

I mean, im anticipating there's lots of people out there with good hair and normal/high DHT levels.
I've also heard DHT production increases as you age, making the follicles taking more hits.

I've heard the opposite, DHT production should decrease as you age.

Hm, isn't the "main reason" for prostate cancer increased DHT levels in the prostate, hitting the elder group of men?
(correct me if wrong)

 

[Matgallis]

Im no expert but I've come to learn that there's a combination of those two, folllicaly sensitivity might be the heaviest stone.

I mean, im anticipating there's lots of people out there with good hair and normal/high DHT levels.
I've also heard DHT production increases as you age, making the follicles taking more hits.

I've heard the opposite, DHT production should decrease as you age.

Hm, isn't the "main reason" for prostate cancer increased DHT levels in the prostate, hitting the elder group of men?
(correct me if wrong)

From what i just looked up, DHT production occurs in the prostate. It doesn't say if increased DHT production caused prostate cancer or if it's just a side effect of having prostate cancer.

 

[powersam]

in answer to the original post, i think its both. some may have hairloss because of too much dht and a reasonable amount of receptors, while others will have hairloss due to having way more receptors and probably normal levels of dht. and there are probably other factors such as inflammation and immune response that are not fully understood yet.

i also read that dht is produced in response to low testosterone levels, as dht is basically just a more potent version of testosterone. so as you get older and your T levels get lower, your dht levels will rise in response.

 

[The Gardener]

This thread raises a really interesting question.

I think this is an area that is worthy of some scientific study, and everything that I have read indicates a general lack of knowledge of the interplay of male hormones and their changes and shifts as we age.

 

[Bryan]

in answer to the original post, i think its both. some may have hairloss because of too much dht and a reasonable amount of receptors, while others will have hairloss due to having way more receptors and probably normal levels of dht. and there are probably other factors such as inflammation and immune response that are not fully understood yet.

Oh, for crying out loud, Sam. When _I_ refer to the "sensitivity" of hair follicles to androgens, I'm usually referring to something far more important than just the number of androgen receptors. I'm usually referring to a different qualitative response to androgens, not just something as simple as the magnitude of the (presumed) negative response. In other words, androgens SUPPRESS scalp hair, but STIMULATE beard hair that's just a few inches away. Now why exactly is that?? Maybe a non-balding person has scalp hair that's a little more like beard hair than it is in a balding guy. THAT is what I mean by a different "sensitivity" to androgens, and it's what others should keep in mind.

i also read that dht is produced in response to low testosterone levels, as dht is basically just a more potent version of testosterone. so as you get older and your T levels get lower, your dht levels will rise in response.

I've never ever heard such a claim, and it doesn't make much sense to me. In fact, there's some evidence that suggests the exact opposite of that: I have a study that found that testosterone added to human scalp hair follicles in vitro caused an UPregulation of 5a-reductase production, not a DOWNregulation.

Bryan

 

[Old Baldy]

Bryan: Here's the type of statement leading people to believe that, as we get older, testosterone production decreases yet, in some men, DHT production increases due to increased 5AR activity. (I couldn't find the actual prostate study but I was able to retrieve a brief statement discussing it.)

5alpha-Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is produced from testosterone and is the "activated'' form which binds to cytoplasmic androgen receptor in most tissues. This testosterone metabolite can be formed in the liver and also ``leaks back'' from androgen target tissues, so that it circulates in plasma at about 20% of total testosterone levels. Both reduced and unaltered plasma levels of total or free DHT have been reported in older men. In one study of elderly men, many of whom had benign prostatic hyperplasia, there were high plasma levels of DHT, but subnormal levels of testosterone, suggesting an increase with age in peripheral 5alpha reduction of testosterone, possibly in prostate tissue

So, it isn't a quantum leap to conclude the body might compensate for the low testosterone levels by producing more DHT. Maybe "compensate" is the wrong term? Or, maybe some men just plain produce more DHT as they get older? But then the question is - WHY?!? :?

So, if the AR's become more "sensitive" to testosterone(?), etc., reducing their influence still appears attractive, maybe more so? Obviously not as attractive as making male pattern baldness follicles behave like beard follicles though.

 

[47thin]

I'm sure that it is how sensitive the hair is too DHT. People have weaknesses all over their bodies. Despite how awful losing ones hair is in some senses, I don't think it has much to do with ones health, etc.

 

[powersam]

yeah i think that was the thing i read, was trying to find it. thanks oldbaldy