DHT AT YOUNG AGE

[HARM1]

Well, it's certainly good for scalp hair!

Bryan

Coild you respomd to my post from aug 17?

 

[Bryan]

I DO recall not having sebum as a kis, what happens all of a sudden?

PUBERTY happens all of a sudden! Your body starts making lots more androgen, which stimulates your sebaceous glands to start producing sebum.

Bryan

 

[Armando Jose]

Bryan wrote between quotation marks
“What does that have to do with what I said, Armando? You keep ignoring the fundamental point, which is that neither pre-pubertal children nor people with CAIS produce any sebum, BUT THEY STILL HAVE LUXURIANT HAIR. Why don't you face that issue, and stop ignoring it?â€￾

I think that study in CAIS is nowadays incomplete, possibly these persons have a alternative route to make androgens. Possibly if scientists could measure androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs or even in brain, they could find a surprise.

“I think she probably didn't really have androgenetic alopecia! But even if she did (by way of androgens produced in the hair follicle), so what? What does that have to do with your theory about the alleged importance of sebum for hair growth?â€￾

You know very well that hair follicle is not alone, in reality is a pilosebaceous unit, as it is confirmed in hair multiplication in vitro.

BTW, have you any idea about the study Assessing hair shedding in children, where in its conclusion the scientits talk about: “The increasing trend with age may suggest a possible prepubertal onset of androgenetic alopecia.â€￾

Armando

 

[HARM1]

I DO recall not having sebum as a kis, what happens all of a sudden?

PUBERTY happens all of a sudden! Your body starts making lots more androgen, which stimulates your sebaceous glands to start producing sebum.

Bryan

But we agreed that sebum is not only a outcome of DHT!

 

[Apoc]

If sebum production would be stimulated just by DHT why would women get acne then?

 

[HARM1]

If sebum production would be stimulated just by DHT why would women get acne then?

It is not, that's why i await bryan's response

 

[powersam]

whats the point to your question? sebum is caused by androgens, dht is one of those androgens. there are others.

 

[Bryan]

I DO recall not having sebum as a kis, what happens all of a sudden?

PUBERTY happens all of a sudden! Your body starts making lots more androgen, which stimulates your sebaceous glands to start producing sebum.

Bryan

But we agreed that sebum is not only a outcome of DHT!

I feel the same way as "powersam". I don't understand your point.

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

I think that study in CAIS is nowadays incomplete, possibly these persons have a alternative route to make androgens. Possibly if scientists could measure androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs or even in brain, they could find a surprise.

It doesn't make any difference if they have an alternative route to make androgens. The point is that they are INSENSITIVE to androgens. ALL androgens.

You know very well that hair follicle is not alone, in reality is a pilosebaceous unit, as it is confirmed in hair multiplication in vitro.

You're stalling, Armando. Explain to me how someone without sebum can have such excellent scalp hair!

BTW, have you any idea about the study Assessing hair shedding in children, where in its conclusion the scientits talk about: “The increasing trend with age may suggest a possible prepubertal onset of androgenetic alopecia.â€￾

I don't have any thoughts on it, except to say that I doubt it has anything to do with androgenetic alopecia.

Bryan

 

[HARM1]

I DO recall not having sebum as a kis, what happens all of a sudden?

PUBERTY happens all of a sudden! Your body starts making lots more androgen, which stimulates your sebaceous glands to start producing sebum.

Bryan

But we agreed that sebum is not only a outcome of DHT!

I feel the same way as "powersam". I don't understand your point.

Bryan

Well, ok:
Sebum is not only an outcome of androgns, is it? It is a regular thing the sking makes, and it has cause to it. So even with out any androngs sebums is made, so why don't people with cais have sebum ?

 

[Armando Jose]

I doubt of existence of healthy hair without sebum because the hair would be fragile and easily broken.

You said that in CAIS "It doesn't make any difference if they have an alternative route to make androgens. The point is that they are INSENSITIVE to androgens. ALL androgens."
Can you cite any studies?

Armando

 

[powersam]

on a more important note Bryan, why must you write my name as "powersam" rather than POWERSAM. is it that you do not believe that i am truly powerful? i am you know, my mum said so.

 

[Armando Jose]

Healthy hair and sebaceous gland.
Please read the interesting review of sebaceous gland of Dr. Rosenfield

An excerpt:
The sebaceous gland is thought to play an active role in processing of the sheath of terminal hair shafts

Androgen physiology and the cutaneous pilosebaceous unit
Endocrine Reviews 21 (4): 363-392
Copyright © 2000 by The Endocrine Society
Role of Hormones in Pilosebaceous Unit Development
Dianne Deplewski and Robert L. Rosenfield
Departments of Medicine and Pediatrics, The University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine, Chicago, Illinois 60637-1470

http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/21/4/363

Abstract
Androgens are required for sexual hair and sebaceous gland development. However, pilosebaceous unit (PSU) growth and differentiation require the interaction of androgen with numerous other biological factors. The pattern of PSU responsiveness to androgen is determined in the embryo. Hair follicle growth involves close reciprocal epithelial-stromal interactions that recapitulate ontogeny; these interactions are necessary for optimal hair growth in culture. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) and retinoids have recently been found to specifically affect sebaceous cell growth and differentiation. Many other hormones such as GH, insulin-like growth factors, insulin, glucocorticoids, estrogen, and thyroid hormone play important roles in PSU growth and development. The biological and endocrinological basis of PSU development and the hormonal treatment of the PSU disorders hirsutism, acne vulgaris, and pattern alopecia are reviewed. Improved understanding of the multiplicity of factors involved in normal PSU growth and differentiation will be necessary to provide optimal treatment approaches for these disorders.

Armando

 

[Bryan]

Well, ok:
Sebum is not only an outcome of androgns, is it? It is a regular thing the sking makes, and it has cause to it. So even with out any androngs sebums is made, so why don't people with cais have sebum ?

Androgen is apparently a HUGE factor in sebum production. So huge, people with CAIS have essentially undetectable sebum.

I recommend the following study for you to read: "The Androgen Control of Sebum Production. Studies of Subjects With Dihydrotestosterone Deficiency and Complete Androgen Insensitivity", Julianne Imperato-McGinley et al, J Clin Endocrin Metab 76: 524-528, 1993. Here are some statements from near the beginning of the Discussion section (added emphasis is my own):

"Our results demonstrate that preadrenarchal children of both sexes (ages 2-6) have undetectable sebum production by the method used....Adult subjects with complete AI [Androgen Insensitivity] have undetectable sebum production and their results are identical to those of preadrenarchal children. These findings confirm the absolute androgen dependency of sebum production of the sebaceous glands, and correlate with clinical observations that subjects with complete AI, like children, have a clear complexion without acne."

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

I doubt of existence of healthy hair without sebum because the hair would be fragile and easily broken.

Can you cite any evidence for that?

You said that in CAIS "It doesn't make any difference if they have an alternative route to make androgens. The point is that they are INSENSITIVE to androgens. ALL androgens."
Can you cite any studies?

See the study I cited and quoted from just above. Also, you can find a lot more material by doing a Google or PubMed search on "complete androgen insensitivity".

Healthy hair and sebaceous gland.
Please read the interesting review of sebaceous gland of Dr. Rosenfield

An excerpt:
The sebaceous gland is thought to play an active role in processing of the sheath of terminal hair shafts

Can you save me some time (so I don't have to read the whole thing) by telling me what that "active role" actually is?

Bryan

 

[HARM1]

Well, ok:
Sebum is not only an outcome of androgns, is it? It is a regular thing the sking makes, and it has cause to it. So even with out any androngs sebums is made, so why don't people with cais have sebum ?

Androgen is apparently a HUGE factor in sebum production. So huge, people with CAIS have essentially undetectable sebum.

I recommend the following study for you to read: "The Androgen Control of Sebum Production. Studies of Subjects With Dihydrotestosterone Deficiency and Complete Androgen Insensitivity", Julianne Imperato-McGinley et al, J Clin Endocrin Metab 76: 524-528, 1993. Here are some statements from near the beginning of the Discussion section (added emphasis is my own):

"Our results demonstrate that preadrenarchal children of both sexes (ages 2-6) have undetectable sebum production by the method used....Adult subjects with complete AI [Androgen Insensitivity] have undetectable sebum production and their results are identical to those of preadrenarchal children. These findings confirm the absolute androgen dependency of sebum production of the sebaceous glands, and correlate with clinical observations that subjects with complete AI, like children, have a clear complexion without acne."

Bryan

So there we have it, androgns are the only thing that bring about sebum. and tha cause for acne is sebum, the main and only one. take out sebum, and you get rid of acne. very interesting.
Well then, how do women get sebum ?

 

[powersam]

but sebum isnt the sole cause of acne. and females do have certain amounts of male hormones in their body do they not?

 

[Bryan]

So there we have it, androgns are the only thing that bring about sebum. and tha cause for acne is sebum, the main and only one.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. After all, castration stops balding, so does it make sense to say that balding is caused by testicles? Of course not.

Lots of people produce sebum (sometimes even LOTS of sebum), but they don't have acne. Acne is a rather complicated disease, just like balding.

Well then, how do women get sebum ?

Women produce androgens, just not as much as men.

Bryan

 

[HARM1]

NOT SURE I GET your POINT. Is it just my wording that you disagree with?
BALLS- T- DHT- BY BY HAIR.
SEBUM- bacteria- EMUNE RESPOONSE- acne
cut out sebum, and you'll have much less acne.

sure, acne is also dependet on the stength of the emune respnse. just like mant people have lots of DHT but don't grow bald. now i see your point. Well it's not the only reason but it's the main one. do you think EMUNHE SUPRESSENTS LIKE SOD'S COULDHELP ACNE?