Controversy Over Nioxin

[Vanity]

Some Shampoo's such as nioxin claim to reduce the builup of DHT on the scalp. On the back of the bottle it actually states that it reduces hair loss bec. of this.

Some experts here claim bullshit. Is this true?

I need to find another shampoo to alternate Nizoral with. I know that everyone here uses T Gel religiously (bec. it was used in the propecia trials), but I was wondering if a DHT inhibitor shampoo (if it exists) would be more beneficial.

 

[Guest]

Some Shampoo's such as nioxin claim to reduce the builup of DHT on the scalp. On the back of the bottle it actually states that it reduces hair loss bec. of this.

Some experts here claim bullshit. Is this true?

I need to find another shampoo to alternate Nizoral with. I know that everyone here uses T Gel religiously (bec. it was used in the propecia trials), but I was wondering if a DHT inhibitor shampoo (if it exists) would be more beneficial.

Well lets see. Nioxin claims it reduces DHT build up. I have never seen anything to suggest this is true but this claim that you say they make. So, judge for yourself. If you want to use Nioxin, please be our guess (it is a nice shampoo). Just understand that you MAY be being fed a big fat lie about the DHT.

Actually, many folks use TGEL, many use nizoral (some say an antiandrogen) and others use all sorts of shampoos.

I like folligen inbetween days from my anti imflammatory shampoos but that is just because it is a nice shampoo.

My advice, don't sweat the shampoo on off days issue.

 

[Vanity]

No sweat...just trying to optimize my results. I have sworn off minoxidil. and am even considering suing, and simply am trying to find a nice replacement.

Thanks for the guidance Bruce. BTW: what do you train? I read in a thread that you have a heavy bag. That and the name....Im brilliant I know.

 

[Kramer3]

What kind of results did u have from minoxidil? Its an odd statement to say that you might be suing them.

 

[Vanity]

Not odd at all.

I simply did not receive full disclosure when using the product.

See we've all been told that if you stop using minoxidil. you will lose the hair that grew as a result of its use. From my own experiences and what Ive heard on this forum and others, stopping minoxidil. causes more hair loss than what would originally have occurred.

Now a couple years after stopping and more shedding. I am confident that I would not have even risked it had I known there was even a possibility it could make my situation worse. But we were not given this info. WE LACKED FULL DISCLOSURE.

One guy said it perfectly here. Using minoxidil. is like making a pact with the devil. I would have declined the risk.

Anyone else agree?

 

[Guest]

No sweat...just trying to optimize my results. I have sworn off minoxidil. and am even considering suing, and simply am trying to find a nice replacement.

Thanks for the guidance Bruce. BTW: what do you train? I read in a thread that you have a heavy bag. That and the name....Im brilliant I know.

I do train but not as much as say 20 yrs ago. These days I hit the bag and skip rope, use the bowflex and do some running. Feel pretty good and that is important, no?
:lol:

 

[HairlossTalk]

DHT can't be "washed" from the scalp. They're literally making it sound like dirt, when they say "buildup". This is intentionally deceptive marketing.

DHT is a hormone that attaches to the receptor sites deep inside your skin at the follicle level. Its present in every single man on this planet, and even women. It doesn't build up and it cannot be "washed away".

You either compete for those receptor sites with something that can block them and not allow DHT to attach (Topical spironolactone Lotion for example), or you inhibit the creation of it in the bloodstream (Propecia). Nioxin has *one* fatty acid ingredient in it, that has data backing it as a DHT inhibiting ingredient. Revivogen has that one and 3 or 4 others, just as, if not more potent than it.

I get in this argument with my guy who cuts my hair every time I go and he gets really angry with me. Oh well.

As for shampoo's in general, they cannot do much as they do not stay on the scalp long enough to absorb sufficiently. You need 24/7 presence of the product in order for it to work. Shampoo's are almost always just used as anti-inflammatory agents (also very important to treating hair loss). You could use Dr. Proctors Nano shampoo which has several DHT inhibiting and andro-receptor-blockers in it, but I wouldnt rely on it alone to treat your loss.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Hess]

Doesn't Nissim shampoo make claims that it can reverse hair loss within a week? I am very skeptical about this!

 

[Vanity]

When HairLossTalk.com posts, its like words from a higher power.

Thanks for the informative response.

 

[ChiaHead]

All i know, is that ive been using Nioxin shampoo and conditioner for 2 years now and I love it. I throw Nizoral in every 2-3 days and my hair is the healthiest it can be, hands down. :!:

Im in love with my Nioxin/Nizoral rotation!!!

I wouldnt buy a shampoo based on its anything other then how well it cleanses/treats your hair, just my opinion.

**Whoa i just noticed im an "experienced poster" oh yea! :hairy: **

 

[Vanity]

Straight from the Horse's Mug:

Will I always have DHT?
Daily use of the NIOXIN Bionutrient Formulations helps to remove excess sebum containing DHT. DHT is a hormone byproduct present in the sebum on the scalp. It's produced by a naturally occurring enzymatic conversion in the body. A genetic predisposition of hormonal balances and imbalances, as well as the conversion of testosterone into DHT, can be inherited from either your mother's or your father's side of the family. If you are prone to DHT, it is likely that your body will always produce it.

Does NIOXIN block DHT?
NIOXIN Bionutrient Formulations help to address the combination of factors linked to noticeably thin-looking hair and remove excess sebum containing elevated levels of DHT.

(DOESNT EVEN REALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION)

Does NIOXIN remove DHT?
Daily use of the NIOXIN system cleanses excess sebum containing elevated levels of DHT from the scalp

MAkes it sound like you can wash out DHT.

 

[Guest]

Straight from the Horse's Mug:

Will I always have DHT?
Daily use of the NIOXIN Bionutrient Formulations helps to remove excess sebum containing DHT. DHT is a hormone byproduct present in the sebum on the scalp. It's produced by a naturally occurring enzymatic conversion in the body. A genetic predisposition of hormonal balances and imbalances, as well as the conversion of testosterone into DHT, can be inherited from either your mother's or your father's side of the family. If you are prone to DHT, it is likely that your body will always produce it.

Does NIOXIN block DHT?
NIOXIN Bionutrient Formulations help to address the combination of factors linked to noticeably thin-looking hair and remove excess sebum containing elevated levels of DHT.

(DOESNT EVEN REALLY ANSWER THE QUESTION)

Does NIOXIN remove DHT?
Daily use of the NIOXIN system cleanses excess sebum containing elevated levels of DHT from the scalp

MAkes it sound like you can wash out DHT.

So that we can put an end to this nioxin garbage:

Nioxin is a very nice cosmetic shampoo.

I have NEVER seen any evidence to substantiate that their shampoo is effective in combatting male pattern baldness. ALL shampoos will "clean excess sebeum from your scalp. That is what shampoos do.

There is no evidence that I know of that simply keeping your scalp periodically cleansed impacts male pattern baldness.

Using an anti-fungal like TGEL is a wholly different matter. Shampoos like Nizoral, TGEL and H and S HAVE been shown to impact male pattern baldness in research settings.

So, use it to look good, forget Nioxin hype.

And please kill this thread.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Sorry Bruce, I can't resist. Reading these things just makes me laugh. I picture a bunch of jerkoffs sitting around a table in a Marketing Department straining their brains to figure out incredibly twisted ways of saying absolutely nothing, and implying something that isn't true without actually saying it. That is, after all, what they're paid for, and this line alone is absolutely brilliant at it:

NIOXIN Bionutrient Formulations help to address the combination of factors linked to noticeably thin-looking hair and remove excess sebum containing elevated levels of DHT.

LOLOL!!!! "help to address" (blah, means nothing. translation: might sorta maybe do something) .... "the combination of factors" (hahaha... can you say intentionally vague?) ..... "factors linkes to noticeably thin-LOOKING hair" .... (again, this says absolutely nothing) .... "and remove sebum containing elevated levels of DHT".....(and THERE is the money shot... it cleans your scalp and they've found that DHT is found in Sebum excretions maybe. Who knows. Doesn't mean anything whatsoever! So all they're saying is they're removing oils from the top of your skin that may also contain DHT. Unfortunately THAT dht has absolutely nothing to do with hair loss. Removing it wont do a thing to stop hair loss).

These people are increddddddddible.

I once read a snake oil website that said the following:

"In clinical studies, 100% of people experienced hair growth while using our product"

Yeah! 100% of people grew hair. Well obviously! Product or no product 100% of people will experience hair growth. New hair growth? Not necessarily. Decrease in shedding? Nah. Reversing male pattern baldness at all? Nope.

DHT is a hormone byproduct present in the sebum on the scalp.

Yes but they fail to mention that the DHT sitting in your sweat is not the DHT that is adversely affecting your follicles. Sebum (sweat, oils, etc) contain lots of things once excreted from the body onto the skin. Its the DHT being produced *INSIDE* the follicle, and in the blood stream that needs to be inhibited. You can't "Inhibit DHT" in a liquid layer of sweat on your skin and wash that away and assume that you've done anything for the follicle.

It's produced by a naturally occurring enzymatic conversion in the body. A genetic predisposition of hormonal balances and imbalances, as well as the conversion of testosterone into DHT, can be inherited from either your mother's or your father's side of the family.

Blah blah blah. Here is where they introduce facts along with their fiction. Conversion *in* the body, yet they claim you can wash it off the surface of your skin like chocolate custard on little billy's chin, and somehow keep little billy from experiencing the effects of the sugar he has just eaten. That is the logic they're using here!!!

If you are prone to DHT, it is likely that your body will always produce it.

Survey says? "X". Wrong. Everyone on the planet produces it. Everyone has it in their body. Everyone is "Prone" to the existence of DHT. The correct thing to say here is if your *Follicles* are prone to being afflicted by DHT via genetic hormonal predisposition, they will begin to miniaturize and fall out, and our product won't do a damn thing to stop that.

Does NIOXIN remove DHT? Daily use of the NIOXIN system cleanses excess sebum containing elevated levels of DHT from the scalp

Translation: You sweat today. Oil was excreted onto your skin. That oil happens to contain DHT in it. That DHT doesn't cause hair loss, but stand under flowing water and our "soap" will help rinse off that oil and sweat. Every shampoo on the planet can and does do this. Rinse away oil and sebum. If that's all their claiming, then you can accomplish this with Pert Plus for $5.95 a month.

Im going to do an article on this for the newsletter, and im going to send this very post to the folks at Nioxin and ask them why they're confusing and misleading people.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Redbone]

In all fairness I think Nioxin is a good cosmetic shampoo as Bruce states. Years ago I use to use the shampoo and conditioner on a daily basis along with Folligen and Crinagen- worked ok but I still lost hair- then I switched to Lewenburgs crap and you cannot use the least bit of a cleansing shampoo when your applying Retin A 4x a day to your scalp.

Thankfully with the help of this site I dropped the Lewenberg and got on the popular regimen. About a week ago I went on a trip and in my medicine bag I found a small supply of Nioxin, we'll I used it and could not believe how vibrant, shiney and thick it made my hair. I was pretty impressed to say the least.

Never use to stop hairloss but good for appearance issues.

 

[Guest]

Agreed! Absolutely a very good cosmetic shampoo and conditioner. I just wish they would stick to that marketing angle.

:lol: