Claims part II

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I´ve been out of town a few days.

I'll have your bottles. I'm the first one on the list, so I'll pay you for them (at least shipping since you want to send them "free"). Still a deal?

Absolutely, send me a mail and supply me a way of sending them to you.

Nesta, come on man... Do you really think a small company is going to be able to spend upwards of $400,000,000 just to get FDA approval for a simple OTC product?

You can´t be serious with that sum?!? And even if that sum was correct there are ways of getting HARD DATA published without being close to that money - you don´t have to show me an FDA approval, show me a study made on humans. I´m 100% certain that this could be done.

Another thing don´t you think that Merck or whoever is behind the original rogaine would have picked up on spironolactone/free fatty acids a long time ago? I mean they already have 1) the fanbase 2) the machine 3) the distribution.

What were you EXPECTING after three months? How many people have used Propecia or Rogaine for three months, and not seen anything? Quite a few, I would imagine.

Sorry my bad! I should have added some information here: I NEVER expected regrowth on revivogen or spironolactone - it´s not a regrowth agent. I didn´t expect it to sting as much as it did since I have zero problems with rogaine and nizoral. But again - I should have added that I did NEVER expect any regrowth with revivogen.

It's supported (to the extent that it IS supported) because of the science behind it.

See above - I want harddata, published in some sort of upper echelon paper - not an outtake from mens health.

It is posts exactly like this that gets awful, misleading rumors started.

What rumours are those? am I selling something? I´m saying there is a correlation between serum testosterone and DHT and I´m saying there is not enough evidence to support putting topical spironolactone on your head.

If you are going to make these kind of claims, it's best to back them up with some sort of scientific research. You're starting to sound like Ken last year around this time.

again am I selling you something? all I´m saying is that +cardio -pumping iron and the lifestyle that goes with weight lifting + less sex. Listen I´m the guy that grew up watching PJ and Janine get it on - I love p**rn and it did nothing to my hair until I gave up cardio and started pumping iron.

Starting? Nesta has been making wild unsubstantiated claims as facts, with absolutely no support or evidence, for as long as I've been reading this forum.

Go through my posts and find that other crazy claim I made. When I first noticed my hairloss I posted about the things I changed in my life before and after - I could do this since my hairloss was extremely rapid.

This is what I changed.

1) Much less cardio 2) less carbs and more protein 3) more foods like nuts and avocados - healthy stuff (I still eat that). I also stopped using a certain brand of anti-allergy pills and drank less coffe.

Please, you dickhead, point to the outrageous claim!! I´ve seen people talk about golden f*****g showers being good for hairloss and people asking about if the water could do it - stupid mofo.

As I said in another thread that he started making claims like this in - he should at least provide SOME scientific data to back up his claims or state "In my opinion..."

There are a lot of younger guys that peruse these forums that may believe this crap at first glance. Misinformation can be a dangerous thing.

What bandwagon am I asking people to join? the spend less time infront of naked chicks on the internet?

Ask yourself this - how long is the halflife of spironolactone in the scalp. Where is that piece of information. Ok so it inhibits 5Ar but what is the halflife - is it 1minute? 10? because testosterone is produced constantly (more so in the morning but still constantly) and if you can inhibit 1 minute out of the 1440 that passes every day then I´m seriously unimpressed. Same goes with spironolactone - how long does it block the receptors, give me that piece of information.

To end things off.

As I see it there are 2 types of hairloss victims.

Those with extremely aggresive hairloss - starting when testosterone gets going - around 15 - noticed around 18 - 20. You guys have ZERO! chance of maintaining your hair and starting today with finasteride when you are 18 years old is just stupid! what if you end up with a small dick and dry skin instead - your hair will still bald no matter what so get great job and save up for future HM instead.

Those with slow hairloss - starting with lifestyle changes - for instance people who start working and stop doing the cardio they used to do, start eating unhealthy then decide to start pumping iron to shape up - I bet there are tons out there who would agree and you´d probably agree that you never felt better - physical that is. These are the guys who should switch to cardio, stay on finasteride and hope that HM will be around before you stop caring about it.

Sorry one last PS.

HairlossTalk said:
Naturally, doctors don't have a clue what im talking about and I wont waste any further time trying to explain it to them. They're ... um ... ok ill say it. Idiots.

HairLossTalk.com

Mature one HairLossTalk.com and I´m 100% certain that all those saved would agree with you - ask David Letterman how upset he was with the doctors after his quadruppel bypass.
 

Bryan

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nesta said:
Nesta, come on man... Do you really think a small company is going to be able to spend upwards of $400,000,000 just to get FDA approval for a simple OTC product?

You can´t be serious with that sum?!?

I am _very_ serious about that sum! I'm serious as a heart attack!! :freaked2:

If you weren't aware of how much money it takes to get FDA approval, then you have learned something VERY important today! Now you know why every little product from every little company out there doesn't go through the FDA approval process!!!

nesta said:
And even if that sum was correct there are ways of getting HARD DATA published without being close to that money - you don´t have to show me an FDA approval, show me a study made on humans. I´m 100% certain that this could be done.

Agreed. But even THOSE studies cost money, although not nearly as much as full FDA approval.

nesta said:
Another thing don´t you think that Merck or whoever is behind the original rogaine would have picked up on spironolactone/free fatty acids a long time ago? I mean they already have 1) the fanbase 2) the machine 3) the distribution.

Rogaine has never been much of a seller for them. I doubt that they'd want to spend any more money on it in an attempt to improve it. Furthermore, there _may_ be patent issues or other legal issues around using an antiandrogen along with a growth stimulant, which could cause problems for them.

nesta said:
I´m saying there is a correlation between serum testosterone and DHT and I´m saying there is not enough evidence to support putting topical spironolactone on your head.

How much evidence do you require? There's a fair number of such studies already...

nesta said:
Ask yourself this - how long is the halflife of spironolactone in the scalp. Where is that piece of information. Ok so it inhibits 5Ar but what is the halflife - is it 1minute? 10? because testosterone is produced constantly (more so in the morning but still constantly) and if you can inhibit 1 minute out of the 1440 that passes every day then I´m seriously unimpressed. Same goes with spironolactone - how long does it block the receptors, give me that piece of information.

I don't think anybody knows that for sure, but the fact remains that studies with both animals AND humans have proven that topical spironolactone does have antiandrogenic properties. That's the bottom-line. Therefore, its half-life must be long enough to do SOME good.

Bryan
 
G

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Bryan you yourself said that there was a study on spironolactone that said it did nothing to hinder hairloss.
 

Bryan

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I don't recall ever saying such a thing. Must have been somebody else!

Bryan
 
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