BRUCE

[Guest]

Just trying to pick your brain. Correct me if I sound stupid here.

Genetics provides us with our unique baseline Test levels, 5ar enzyme levels and receptors. Providing that no other drugs, food or anyhing is affecting us.

First question. Because of our preset 5ar enzyme levels, is DHT independant of TEST levels to a certain point. ANother way of putting: Is a certain amount of TEST always converted to DHT, regardless of what someones TEST levels may be.

Acutally that my only question, I guess I need the answers to ask another

 

[Guest]

Just trying to pick your brain. Correct me if I sound stupid here.

Genetics provides us with our unique baseline Test levels, 5ar enzyme levels and receptors. Providing that no other drugs, food or anyhing is affecting us.

First question. Because of our preset 5ar enzyme levels, is DHT independant of TEST levels to a certain point. ANother way of putting: Is a certain amount of TEST always converted to DHT, regardless of what someones TEST levels may be.

Acutally that my only question, I guess I need the answers to ask another

I have tried to find studies on DHT and its functions, attributes etc. Damn frustrating, as I have come up almost empty handed. Most of the studies address prostate issues and just stop.

My sense with no proof is that like many hormones, DHT is tied to its precursor (MR T) but has actions that are also independent. Then there is the whole impact of estrogen on DHT, which I think is the more interesting topic.

 

[Guest]

BRuce

Thanks for the reply.

Another question. DO you think it's possible that male pattern baldness, is caused by different circumstances in guys. They obvioulsy still have to have the "thing" genetics give us.

Examples

A guy could have higher than normal T level, giving rise to higher than normal DHT levels

A guy could have normal T levels, but have high count of the 5ar enzyme leading to high levels of DHT

A guy could have normal levels of the above variables, but have an abundance fo receptors.

Or, are these variables really insignificant besides controlling the speed at which we bald and determine our final Norwood

 

[Guest]

BRuce

Thanks for the reply.

Another question. DO you think it's possible that male pattern baldness, is caused by different circumstances in guys. They obvioulsy still have to have the "thing" genetics give us.

Examples

A guy could have higher than normal T level, giving rise to higher than normal DHT levels

A guy could have normal T levels, but have high count of the 5ar enzyme leading to high levels of DHT

A guy could have normal levels of the above variables, but have an abundance fo receptors.

Or, are these variables really insignificant besides controlling the speed at which we bald and determine our final Norwood

Your questions actually point out how little we know about male pattern baldness. For example, there are those who actually queston exactly how much DHT is the root cause of male pattern baldness or if so, how much other factors really impact the progression of hair loss.

I have been rethinking this of late, esp due to my success with folligen. Also, the success of nizoral and TGEL also give rise to other methdolologies for attacking male pattern baldness.

Lastly, all the variables that you mention seem to be outside of our direct control anyway so interesting speculation is probably all we can get out of the dialog. In other words, if I am hyper responder to DHT, what can I do with that knowledge, etc.

 

[Guest]

Bruce

Thanx again.

All variables except 5ar, which we do minipulate, however you are right we can not control how much are baslines are in any of those variable.

I also feel that though DHT plays a huge role in hairloss, there has to be some sort of mechanism(s) that cause DHT to be detrimental to our hair follicles. DHT cannot be the root cause, the root cause is how our bodies react to DHT after puberty, which is where I feel the process is kicked off no matter the severity of one's hairloss. I'm sure I started to recede at 16, but it was only noticealbe at 22. SOme it only becomes noticeable in there 30's. Wierd

Another quick question. DO you think that these variable could determine whether propecia would be successful or determine whether someone would get side-effects

eg. A guy that has loss, but has naturally low DHT levels, obviously has more receptors than a guy with high DHT(assuming there loss is at the same rate and severity) Therefore, this guy could take all the propecia he wants, but DHT will still cause him problems. While with the other guys problem was high DHT(little receptors), so therefore propecia cuts out his primary problem.

I thought nizoral(if any is absorbed) is an mild anti-androgen. Or, are you referring to it's anti-immflamtory/sebum properties.

 

[Guest]

>>thought nizoral(if any is absorbed) is an mild anti-androgen. Or, are you referring to it's anti-immflamtory/sebum properties.>>

The claim that nizoral is an anti-androgen has been made here several times. It has also been disputed by several of our more knowledgeable posters so I think it is an open question until we see better science on that topic.

Having said that, I believe that the impact of shampoos such as TGEL and Nizoral are essential in fighting male pattern baldness! Suffice to say, their action on inflammation and on the sebac. glands in the scalp are crucial to helping break up the hair loss cycle (IMHO).

I once did a search on dandruff on PubMed and found tons of very useful studies on how the treatment of dandruff interacts with male pattern baldness. Try it sometime!

:lol: