Brief cessation of min/CPs:re Dr Pickart, Dr Proctor, Dr Lee

[Cassin]

**** ***
to healthyskin
More options Apr 23 (5 days ago)
Dr Pickart

I was wandering what your views were regarding stopping minoxidil for
a short time. The reason I ask is because I am wondering if someone
such as me who has been on minoxidil for over a year might benefit for
a brief cessation for lets say a week every 3 or 4 months. Also would
this hold true for Copper-Peptides?
Thank you in advance for your time.

****

Healthy Skin
to me
More options Apr 25 (3 days ago)
Dear ****,

I think the products might work better. Cells tend to become less
responsive when constantly exposed to a substance.

The idea of constant use is more a marketing ploy than cell science.
One injection of either minoxidil or SRCPs in the testing models in mice
produces strong hair growth.

Loren Pickart

________________________________________________




Peter H Proctor
<drp@drproctor.com> to me
More options Apr 23 (5 days ago)
At 07:52 AM 4/23/2005, you wrote:
>Dr Proctor
>
>I was wandering what your views were regarding stopping minoxidil for
>a short time. The reason I ask is because I am wondering if someone
>such as me who has been on minoxidil for over a year might benefit for
>a brief cessation for lets say a week every 3 or 4 months. Also would
>this hold true for Copper-Peptides?

Can't say. Sorry.

Dr Proctor


_______________________________________________-


Richard Lee, M.D.
to me
More options Apr 27 (7 hours ago)


**** *** wrote:

> Dr Lee
>
> I was wandering what your views were regarding stopping minoxidil for
> a short time. The reason I ask is because I am wondering if someone
> such as me who has been on minoxidil (Item #500) for over a year might
> benefit for a brief cessation for lets say a week every 3 or 4 months.
>
> Thank you in advance for your time.
>

The idea of developing a tolerance ("5% loses it's effect") to minoxidil after a few years of use is an unfortunate misconception to balding patients who use minoxidil. Minoxidil doesn't really cause a tolerance, i.e. as long as you apply minoxidil, it will extend the anagen phase of those hair follicles and positively affect the hair follicles, which are susceptible to hair loss. However, the amount of scalp hair regrowth is maximized at about two years, and it's unlikely that more hair follicles will be recruited to produce a terminal hair shaft again after that time unless you increase the concentration of minoxidil delivered to the follicles and/or take measures to protect the follicles from DHT. Some patients will be able to maintain the hair on the scalp with continued treatment, but most patients will gradually see some thinning again. Patients who stay on treatment with minoxidil definitely do much better than untreated patients, but the positive results will decline over time. There seems to be a threshold level at which hair follicles can be recruited to grow a terminal hair shaft again. Using a high concentration topical minoxidil ensures the best results.

See Myth H.3 in the attached document.

Richard Lee, M.D.

>
> ****
>
> I am also on Finatseride

 

[hair_tomorrow]

I heard someone say not too long ago that Dr. Pickart actually recommends taking the last week of the month off from using any topicals.

What I do is to take a 2 - 3 day break every now and then, as needed. Between the minoxidil and the ozbrew, and the xandrox15 and the occassional use of revivogen - my scalp gets irritated every now and then. And that's when I'll take a break.

Hasn't hurt.

 

[global]

I just take one day off a week from topicals.

 

[Cassin]

It was a post by Shedmaster.

I figure a break for a straight week ought to have somewhat of a healing effect from the damage brought by the harsh chemicals. Besides, a break would be nice.

 

[Petchsky]

Great post man! Something i have been thinking about as i'm off to Glatonbury festival in June with a mate for 5 days and applying my minoxidil in a shared tent just is not going to happen, especially as i won't be able to wash my hair. That said i was worried about a 5 day break...Not anymore.

Dr Proctor's response was dissapointing.

 

[Cassin]

Dr Proctor's response was dissapointing.

Typical response by him. This is why people don't use his products very much, he is his own worst advertising he is way too blunt and he always sounds bothered by emails. I am sure he is a great guy and truely cares for his products and his customers, he just doesn't come off well. Which is a shame because his products are a fantastic plan B for people who don't respond to Finasteride or Minoxidil.

To me the most dissapointing response was by Dr Lee who is constantly throwing out pre-written canned responses now. This is a nasty habit he has started about 6 months ago.

 

[misterium]

I think they're very busy men so they can only spend a certain amount of time daily responding to emails... a majority of the emails are probably repetative, hence the pre-written responses.

A lot of our questions are stumpers, let's face it.... there's a lot left to be learned in these fields.

Dr. Pickart's products are excellent though... I've used his copper peptide creams on a mole and it's basically gone (along with the use of hydroxy acids).

 

[Cassin]

I think they're very busy men so they can only spend a certain amount of time daily responding to emails.

Replying to our emails is their bread and butter, this is where we learn the most about their products and their use.

.. a majority of the emails are probably repetative, hence the pre-written responses.

True, but individual replies to the emailer is what has made Dr Lee what he is today. The top selling provider of non FDA hairloss treatments. People trust him with a personal relationship a unique respose gives them.

A lot of our questions are stumpers, let's face it.... there's a lot left to be learned in these fields.

True again, but my question isn't so unique or unthought of that Dr Proctor couldn't have thown out his personal speculation.

Dr. Pickart's products are excellent though... I've used his copper peptide creams on a mole and it's basically gone (along with the use of hydroxy acids).

Thats what I have heard, should results for me ever begin to drop and I need spironolactone, I am going straight for his products.

And for the above replies, I don't mean to whine and be pissy (even thought that is exactly what it looks like,) I am just throwing out my personal opinions on the matter.

 

[jfhawk06]

great post, extremely helpful.
thanks!

 

[ShedMaster]

Thats right Dr. Pickard recommended taking the last week of the month off from all topicals. Always question what the person's intentions are when asking questions of this nature. They are almost always looking out for their own bottom line. The fact that Dr. Pickard recommened this, which in return results in using less of the product that he sells, tells me that he is honest and truely concerned with his patients. I think that he understands that by being honest in the long run will help his business and achieve more customer loyalty.

 

[Bryan]

Dr. Pickart's products are excellent though... I've used his copper peptide creams on a mole and it's basically gone (along with the use of hydroxy acids).

AHA!! Your post has prompted me to share a little anecdote of my own:

In August of last year, I was _really_ starting to get worried about this bad-looking spot on the top of my left forearm. It was a roughly round area almost exactly the size of a dime, and was a DEEPLY pigmented area with a "rough" look to it. If I held my arm up to you, you could easily spot it from across the room! I'd had that damned thing for quite a while (years, maybe), and it seemed to be slowly getting worse. While I suppose it was probably just what is popularly called an "age-spot", I didn't like the fact that it was VERY ugly, and probably getting bigger. As you can imagine, I was entertaining the idea that maybe it was something more serious, something that I better go have my dermatologist take a look at (I think all of you know exactly what I'm hinting at).

I did one little experiment first, though: I had a couple of old tubes of Iamin gel still lying around which I'd purchased from ProCyte several years ago (they were well past their expiration date, too, BTW). Just for the hell of it, I started applying a dab of Iamin gel to that spot every day, and after just a week or two...damn...I could see that the ugly spot was slowly starting to fade! I continued doing that for about two months, and then stopped. After that two months, the spot had faded to such a significant degree, it was no longer really even noticeable from more than a foot or two away, and it's remained that way to this very day. I can still see it myself rather faintly, but then I know exactly where to look (it's situated between two ordinary small moles on my arm, which make good landmarks). But the difference now is like the difference between day and night: if I were talking to someone face-to-face, they'd never even notice the slight amount of discoloration on my arm.

BTW, I decided to stop the treatment after about two months for a couple of different reasons: 1) I simply got tired of applying the gel every day, and 2) I wanted to see if the effect would be permanent or temporary if I quit before the spot had fully disappeared. So far, it hasn't regressed any. I might start applying the gel again, to see if I can eliminate it entirely.

For those of you who are relatively new to all this stuff, "Iamin Hydrating Gel" was the first commercial product from ProCyte. It used their first copper-peptide (prezatide copper acetate) in a gel designed to speed the healing of wounds to which it's directly applied. I had never really fooled with it much on my scalp, because the gel was rather difficult to work with. But the stuff certainly did wonders for that ugly "age-spot" on my arm!

After I first noticed that fading effect after a couple of weeks, I did a quick Google search on "prezatide copper acetate" and found a few interesting hits, including a Web page from a dermatologist who said that prezatide copper acetate was a good treatment for...you guessed it...AGE-SPOTS on the skin!!

Bryan

 

[The Gardener]

Great thread, Cassin. A question all of us have wondered about at one time or another, it is interesting to hear the reactions, although I have read that quote from Dr Lee five, six, maybe seven times now in different forums. A word for word cut-and-paste.

I don't think a break is all that bad, but I do not 'plan' breaks on a monthly basis. I f*** up enough with my regimen discipline from time to time for other reasons that end up with me neglecting my topicals without having to try. I strive for perfection. But, it is good to know that because I am not perfect with my topical discipline I am not hurting my results.

 

[Cassin]

opsblush:

I have been around here so long and I have read so much about these doctors I tend to forgot the new people have no idea who these people are. Sorry guys.

These are basically the three biggest hairloss guys that sell non FDA aproved products on the internet.

Dr Pickart is a skin doctor who sells products based on copper-peptides.
http://www.skinbiology.com

Dr Proctor sells an alternative topical solution mainly to the benefit of those who don't respond to minoxidil and finasteride based on nanogens.
http://www.drproctor.com

Dr Lee sells topicals solutions based on different versions of the FDA aproved solution of minoxidil. His main product is a solution called Xandrox.
http://www.xandrox.com

Once again sorry to the new guys, we need to do a better job of explaining ourselves when it comes to stuff we oldtimers think is common knowledge.

 

[too bald too furious]

Thanks for this thread Cassin.

I am sure I have read somewhere...that some Dr. said that after 1 year application of minoxidil, a break of abt 2 weeks or so should be given so that the hair follicles do not develop some sort of resistance to minoxidil.

I may have wrongly phrased it..but sorry thats the best i can explain.

 

[Cassin]

I am sure I have read somewhere...that some Dr. said that after 1 year application of minoxidil, a break of abt 2 weeks or so should be given so that the hair follicles do not develop some sort of resistance to minoxidil.

I am sure it was a thread by Shedmaster and it was Dr Pickart who made the statement.

My issue is not Tolerance, I am more interested in the healing aspect that time off will bring me. I think the follicle and scalp need a beather.

It's going to feel odd not using anything for a week, starting today. I figure starting the first week every 3 months is a good timeline to follow.

 

[Cassin]

Ok just went a week treatment free, nothing positive or negative happened. Which is odd because I expected my scalp to feel different somewhow. I guess I need to take this as a good sign that my scalp is in good health.

I suppose I will do this every 3 months.