Anyone here every doubt the meds?

[CCS]

I know they got lots of studies backing them, and usually I'm really confident. But sometimes I look in the mirror and worry that I'm going bald no matter what I do. At these times I wonder if I might be in the worst group or if all the studies were faked or there are many other factors at play.

Anyone else here ever wonder if this stuff can work? It does not help that i got some shock loss behind a temple, which makes it look like like thinning there. I hope the hairs grow back in. Until then it makes me feel like I'm getting balder.

I think as long as we have bald spots, we will feel like we are getting balder. We need pics to show us what we used to look like so we can know how much help we are getting. I don't even know what I used to look like before my second transplant.

Some people are saying i should not put grafts in front, but as i'm looking at my frontal graft density and the small area they are in, I find it hard bo believe they'd do any good even if they were all put on top, if I went bald up there. I just don't think transplants will do much good for someone with serious balding, so i think it is pointless to worry about wasting them, and better to look good now and shave later.

 

[s.a.f]

Ever notice that there are no moneyback garuntees with meds? I think that they work for some but not for others you've just got to be one of the fortunate ones. Who knows if the manufacturers figures are accurate or not, but in my experience the guys who start losing it young are the ones who go onto become nw6/nw7's. And I've seen some cases where guys have started receed at about 19/20 and then got on the meds and never progressed further than nw2/nw3. I'm convinced that this is due to the meds. However I've been on and off dutasteride and finasteride for about 3yrs now and I don't think it has done anything for me.

 

[CCS]

they still progressed to NW2 or 3? By 70 or by 35? If by 35, I guess it is better than nothing. Well, it is better than nothing. But still very annoying.

I just know I do not feel safe just taking propecia every day. I'm hitting this from as many angles as I can, and hopefully my hair will respond to one of them. I really wonder how they can know what biochemistry is going on in the scalp. It is just so amazing they can figure out all those pathways, even in general biochem books. Makes me wonder how accurate it is.

We have to try, and I think my regimen is pretty cheap and easy. But I still don't feel safe yet. I'll feel safer when I see some real regrowth. Right now I'm just seeing the top of my head look a lot thicker than it has in a long time, but then on some days some areas just look thin, and I have to wonder.

I just want my top to stay thick long enough for my grafts to grow out, and then I can buy HM later when I have money.

 

[Aplunk1]

Treatments take an incredibly long time to make effect. The effects are subtle over the months, and, with photos, the results are slowly revealed.

I believe Techprof has commented this, but I've noticed it, too:

Those who begin Propecia NEVER/rarely progress past a NW3/4.

Have you noticed this, College?

You need to look for more success stories. They're out there.

Encouragement is so hard to find when treating a condition like hairloss. It's not like your buddies will ever say, "Hey, that Rogaine really looks like it's doing something!" or "Your balding head is getting better!"

Hairloss is tough... Take your treatments. Take the comments with a grain of salt, and realize that you're doing the best you can.

With the right approach, you'll succeed.

 

[Nathaniel]

Hey College, you need to take pics man. And I don't mean for you to post them, but for you to properly assess your situation. So I read you've had a couple of transplants, why didn't you take pics before your second procedure?

Even if you start another treatment, you need pictures to evaluate. Your mind can play tricky games. I can understand how you feel, sometimes I also wonder if the stuff I'm taking works. I guess what you say is true, attack hairloss from every possible angle and hope for the best.

However I can assure you that at least for me, getting on finasteride and minoxidil has made a difference. Hopefully I can hold it up for years to come.

 

[Goingat20]

college ive tried 2 years of finasteride, 2 years of dutasteride. Hair continued to get worse, hoping RU will bring some positive results...

 

[CCS]

The propecia graphs tested men aged 18 to 40. I don't know what the average norwood was, but I think the 5 year graph was of the top, in the area that connects the front and back. From the fe pics I saw, it seemed a lot of them had good density. I think guys who loose hair young, especially if they were loosing it a while before starting the meds, have got a big battle ahead of them. I think it can be done. I might even regrow some and keep it. But I'm going to have to get the best concentration and quality of the right chemicals and get the right vehicles and combo that stuff with the dutasteride, and get preservatives and make sure stuff does not react. Just tossing green tea leaves in minoxidil is not going to cut it. I think my regimen is just about good enough that if I find a preservative, I can use it while I focus on school, and do more research when I have more time. My stuff may not be super strong, but it will save my hair until I find something that is.

 

[techprof]

Aplunk, you are right. I did say that.

I want to see a single post with pictures wherein the user has gone from NW2/3 to even one scale up after being on finasteride or dutasteride

(NW1 to 2 is possible). If you are on finasteride before you hit NW2 or 3, you will probably not get any worse afterwards for a long time.

I started finasteride after moving to NW6 or 5+. Too late. Only benefit was I never went past NW6 to NW7. And the finasteride/dutasteride protects the safe-zone hairs.

 

[JayB]

call me a cynic but i really do not understand why people think that they will regrow hair from propecia. Will it hold your hair the way it is? Probably, but the studies on eunichs show that even after the artificial testosterone was stopped, the subjects NEVER regrew the lost hair. And they had no testicles!!!!! What do u think finasteride could possibly do if men with no balls couldnt even regrow their hair back.

 

[CCS]

not a whole lot, though the castration studies are small and do not catch the best responders. They just show how most people will likely respond. But dutasteride brings DHT levels down even lower than castrationlevels, based on 95% of testosterone being made by the testes, and 50% of female androgens being DHT. I would assume then that castration reduces DHT levels by 95%, compared to 98.5% on Avodart. Topical anti-androgens could do even more.

 

[Guest]

I don´t doubt that drugs are working. Just take a look at all these Sucess stories!

P.S.: Well at least they CAN work!

 

[CCS]

I hate seeing the thinning spots on the front top of my head. I hope RU makes a difference. At least I only see them after I apply minoxidil. My hair looks its best right after a shower when all the shafts are going the same direction. But I can tell the hairs in the thin areas are lighter in color, so it is not just shaft bunching.

So we heard that HM will be 18-90,000 when it comes out in at least 2 years. We also know that unless you can stableize your hair loss, grarts can not give you a NW1 or even a NW2, unless you are not destined to go past NW4. Judging by my brother's hair loss, I think the sky is the limit for me.

So I got to make the meds work really good for 10 years at least. RU58841 is supposed to be the miracle drug, or so some people thought. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Even though the UV spec matched up, I'm still scared of generics. I'm taking dutas, though.

 

[JayB]

I hate seeing the thinning spots on the front top of my head. I hope RU makes a difference. At least I only see them after I apply minoxidil. My hair looks its best right after a shower when all the shafts are going the same direction. But I can tell the hairs in the thin areas are lighter in color, so it is not just shaft bunching.

So we heard that HM will be 18-90,000 when it comes out in at least 2 years. We also know that unless you can stableize your hair loss, grarts can not give you a NW1 or even a NW2, unless you are not destined to go past NW4. Judging by my brother's hair loss, I think the sky is the limit for me.

So I got to make the meds work really good for 10 years at least. RU58841 is supposed to be the miracle drug, or so some people thought. I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Even though the UV spec matched up, I'm still scared of generics. I'm taking dutas, though.

Hey college,
how are you able to obtain RU? I thought the company was sold and the product was shelved.

 

[CCS]

a company in china is selling it. someone at a University of California campus bought some and tested it and reported it was 99% pure. You have to buy the powder, keep it very dry, and preserve until you need it, and make your own solution. They don't know the ideal solution. They just make a batch every month if they get orders that month. If you are late, you have to wait until the next month. It is $300 plus $90 shipping for 10g, and $600 plus $90 shipping for 20g. Some people who don't preserve it well have problems, but others have had good results. I did not see pictures so I don't know.

 

[CCS]

I just saw some NW1's today. They had really dense hair, at least when not in direct sunlight. Their hair was maybe 2 inches long, but I could not see the scalp at all. It was like a solid wall. So lucky.

I've also noticed that there is a decent number of sun bather's who have a lot of dark freckles. I guess not just the genetically gifted people sun bath.

 

[JayB]

a company in china is selling it. someone at a University of California campus bought some and tested it and reported it was 99% pure. You have to buy the powder, keep it very dry, and preserve until you need it, and make your own solution. They don't know the ideal solution. They just make a batch every month if they get orders that month. If you are late, you have to wait until the next month. It is $300 plus $90 shipping for 10g, and $600 plus $90 shipping for 20g. Some people who don't preserve it well have problems, but others have had good results. I did not see pictures so I don't know.

So this company in China actually synthesized the molecule and is selling it for only 300 dollars? I mean, i know thats steep but considering they actually had to synthesize a compound in order to make RU, it just sounds wierd..i thought someone would have to pay thousands to have a lab do that for them.
WHen are you getting this? And im not sure what u mean by making your own solution..could u elaborate as to how one would do that?

 

[Solo]

There are some awesome regroth testimonials documented with pics in the success section.


They are not the general rule ot the most probable thing it will happen to you, but hey, nevertheless, here they are!!

 

[CCS]

from the few I read, it seemed the people who don't have the common sense to preserve the stuff are the ones with bad results, but I only read 4 stories.

You need dump the powder in the liquid of your choice and put it on your head. No studies have been done to find the best vehicile. There are some french studies, but I don't know what they are about. Most people use 50% ethanol and 50% propylene glycol, which they buy separately. I am going to mix in DMSO, and if I can find out that RU is fat soluble, I'll mix in octyl salicylate too.

As for preservation, I'm not sure if I should mix up 4 months at once, or use part of a bag and store the rest. It is humid where I live, so it might be best to make the 4 months at once.

hairhaircomeagain needs someone to buy his. He promised to buy some from me but now won't be home when it arrives, so he is recruiting someone to take his place. I can send you the 2g and the liquid and let you do what you want, or I can send it to you prepared.

 

[Guest]

Those who begin Propecia NEVER/rarely progress past a NW3/4.

Aplunk,

Seeing as propecia has only been out for 10 years, I don't think a statement like this can be made yet.

We haven't been tracking guys who got on Propecia at age 25 10 years ago. It will be 35 more years till they're in their 70s and to assume that some of them won't eventually be NW5s or NW6s may be correct, but it is unproven.

We do have that Propecia chart from Merck to look at but it only measured 5 years. I really think it's too soon to make any judgements regarding this subject.

It also matters when someone begins the drug. If someone begins Propecia when they are at my stage and my age, like a NW1.5 at 22, then maybe they can expect to progress about a Norwood's worth every 15 years or so. So NW2.5 at 40, NW3.5 at 55. I'm just throwing numbers out there and that might not sound great but since my genetics mean I'm probably destined to be a NW6 at 50 without Propecia, it sounds pretty good to me to be only a little worse than NW3 at 50.

And of course then we have dutasteride, which I recently switched to and which I know you are on, Aplunk. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that people like us who are early twenties and around NW2 could be no worse off than NW3 at 55 or 60. By then you won't care anymore. Obviously people using stuff like minoxidil when you start to thin on dutasteride can stay a little head of the future thinning as well.

We see from Propecia that the hair counts decline after the 2nd year on the drug, for the average responder. What CCS, myself and others have been discussing is the possibility of a lot of people who get on dutasteride early actually flatlining and not losing any more hair, or if they do eventually start to lose more hair on it, only losing it at a miniscule fraction of the rate they would lose it if not on dutasteride. We're talking something like 5% of the original rate and this could be attributed to just general thinning with age or maybe testosterone or just that tiny bit of DHT still left. But with 0.5 mg of Avodart a day knocking out 98.5% of the follicular dht it's safe to say that dutasteride is the shiznit, and much better than finasteride for maintenance as well as regrowth. We've heard that 50% more regrowth on dutasteride compared to minoxidil, but as ccs has pointed out dutasteride hair counts were only measured for six months. He believes that dutasteride could outperform minoxidil if paired head to head in a two year study. The dominance of dutasteride compared to finasteride has to be because of the extra percentage of type II knocked out and the 50% of type I knocked out may help a tiny bit as well. I think that dutasteride is great in regrowing hair for people who have lost it within the past year or so before starting the drug. If the follicles have not miniaturized entirely or are only at 50% minaturization or so, dutasteride knocking out the type II dht may be enough for these hairs to shed and then thrive again at their full former length.

But basically all we have to do is hang on until hair cloning comes out and is affordable. I'm almost certain that hair cloning will be out in 15 years, and dutasteride *should* hold our hair at the present state until then. It is an insanely powerful drug and that fact has its upsides as well as its downsides.

So ,again, I do happen to agree with you that a fair amount of people will never progress past NW3ish if they are on finasteride, but dutasteride would be better. We just don't have the long-term evidence to prove this assertion yet.

Cheers.

 

[Guest]

Aplunk, you are right. I did say that.

I want to see a single post with pictures wherein the user has gone from NW2/3 to even one scale up after being on finasteride or dutasteride

(NW1 to 2 is possible). If you are on finasteride before you hit NW2 or 3, you will probably not get any worse afterwards for a long time.

I started finasteride after moving to NW6 or 5+. Too late. Only benefit was I never went past NW6 to NW7. And the finasteride/dutasteride protects the safe-zone hairs.

techprof, same thing I said to aplunk above. I'm optimistic in agreeing with you but we just don't have the data and seeing as like no one has been on finasteride for longer than ten years or dutasteride for longer than four, it's tough to say. the follicles in some people get more sensitive to dht as they age and there is general thinning with age as well. since we are starting from a worse off point than the non-male pattern baldness people, we may indeed progress through Norwoods. Or we may not. I hope it's the latter obviously.