Anyone going to be adding LION 6-BAP PRODUCT to the big 3
- Thread starter shivs
- Start date
bombscience
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 7
Yeah I only hear good things about this, but i'm sure it's just hype. I would like to see some of the clinical results.
Hi guys
In fact there was a trial of 6-bap (aka 6-benzylaminopurine) conducted by Lion Corp and and Tokushima University School of Medicine's Department of Dermatology. There were nearly 500 participants.
Two interesting points were made:
1. 6-benzyl aminopurine was seen to encourage activity during the growth stage of the hair growth cycle, and to effectively boost the level of hair growth promoting signals present during the growth cycle.
2) ...evidence suggests that 6-benzyl aminopurine discourages the loss of hair follicles, helping to return the stunted hair growth cycle to its rightful state.
Anyway, for those interested in reading a bit more about it, here's the product press release:
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/html/2003033f.htm
They don't plan to distribute abroad but Kurogrow (supplier of t-flav) expect to stock by mid-late October.
Quite a few guys are going to try it so in a few months we should know if it's an effective treatment. This is more of an adjunct to an existing regimen, than a direct replacement.
Cheers, funkster
In fact there was a trial of 6-bap (aka 6-benzylaminopurine) conducted by Lion Corp and and Tokushima University School of Medicine's Department of Dermatology. There were nearly 500 participants.
Two interesting points were made:
1. 6-benzyl aminopurine was seen to encourage activity during the growth stage of the hair growth cycle, and to effectively boost the level of hair growth promoting signals present during the growth cycle.
2) ...evidence suggests that 6-benzyl aminopurine discourages the loss of hair follicles, helping to return the stunted hair growth cycle to its rightful state.
Anyway, for those interested in reading a bit more about it, here's the product press release:
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/html/2003033f.htm
They don't plan to distribute abroad but Kurogrow (supplier of t-flav) expect to stock by mid-late October.
Quite a few guys are going to try it so in a few months we should know if it's an effective treatment. This is more of an adjunct to an existing regimen, than a direct replacement.
Cheers, funkster
HairlossTalk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 6
Hi Funk!
Where did these trials get published? Meaning: Which legitimately recognized scientific journal that involves peer review of ...
1. The way in which the study was conducted
2. The people involved in the study (ie, were they biased and potentially affected the outcome?)
3. The duration, number of participants, and methods used were all completely repeatable and scientifically based....
... which journal that fits these criteria (like for example the American Academy of Dermatology) did these studies end up in , and can we find them in PubMed as internationally recognized legitimate studies with legit results?
So far I have asked for this and not a single person has been able to do anything except point me back to the company's website.
I can show you tons of studies about Hair Genesis and Fabao and Avacor as well, that we "conducted by the company" with 500 participants, but that just doesn't scratch my itch of scientific reputability. Even Nioxin "conducted studies" that show that it works in 90% of people. It's generally accepted that this statistic is total BS, but they had nearly 500 people as well, and conducted it for I believe 2 years ... but guess what... somehow its still not FDA approved, nor were their studies acknowledged by any peer reviewed journal.
This is the key.
In fact, even the makers of Hair Genesis got a study into PubMed but if you look to see where the study was published, Journal of Alternative Herbal Remedies (something like this). It never made it into the Amer Acad Derm journal. Why? Because of its methods, # of participants, and several other factors. So existing on PubMed isn't even technically a sign of legitimacy.
The real legitimacy of a study comes in its published location because criteria are set for inclusion into such journals, and *that* is where we should be focusing before we believe even a single word we read in the study. All this is said with a smile, and I am hoping that you will prove me wrong on this. Id love to have another product to let all of our users know they can keep their eyes on for potential additional help!
Until then, this is just Joe, the owner of Super Hair Tonic saying "No really, i swear, we did a study and it showed amazing results, you can even see the study on MY website where I put it myself. I swear its legit, I swear!"
Sorry not good enough for me.
HairLossTalk.com
Where did these trials get published? Meaning: Which legitimately recognized scientific journal that involves peer review of ...
1. The way in which the study was conducted
2. The people involved in the study (ie, were they biased and potentially affected the outcome?)
3. The duration, number of participants, and methods used were all completely repeatable and scientifically based....
... which journal that fits these criteria (like for example the American Academy of Dermatology) did these studies end up in , and can we find them in PubMed as internationally recognized legitimate studies with legit results?
So far I have asked for this and not a single person has been able to do anything except point me back to the company's website.
I can show you tons of studies about Hair Genesis and Fabao and Avacor as well, that we "conducted by the company" with 500 participants, but that just doesn't scratch my itch of scientific reputability. Even Nioxin "conducted studies" that show that it works in 90% of people. It's generally accepted that this statistic is total BS, but they had nearly 500 people as well, and conducted it for I believe 2 years ... but guess what... somehow its still not FDA approved, nor were their studies acknowledged by any peer reviewed journal.
This is the key.
In fact, even the makers of Hair Genesis got a study into PubMed but if you look to see where the study was published, Journal of Alternative Herbal Remedies (something like this). It never made it into the Amer Acad Derm journal. Why? Because of its methods, # of participants, and several other factors. So existing on PubMed isn't even technically a sign of legitimacy.
The real legitimacy of a study comes in its published location because criteria are set for inclusion into such journals, and *that* is where we should be focusing before we believe even a single word we read in the study. All this is said with a smile, and I am hoping that you will prove me wrong on this. Id love to have another product to let all of our users know they can keep their eyes on for potential additional help!
Until then, this is just Joe, the owner of Super Hair Tonic saying "No really, i swear, we did a study and it showed amazing results, you can even see the study on MY website where I put it myself. I swear its legit, I swear!"
Sorry not good enough for me.
HairLossTalk.com
Hey HairLossTalk.com
No arguments from me...
Sure, we won't know if it's an effective treatment until it's been peer reviewed, fully tested etc etc, but it *IS* interesting that 3 quite different Androgenetic Alopecia treatments (OSH101, t-flav & 6-bap) involve bone protein related therapy.
Speaking of peer-reviewed publication, studies etc, surely you're getting a bit more curious about RU and fluridil? Go on, admit it, just a little bit more curious
No arguments from me...
Sure, we won't know if it's an effective treatment until it's been peer reviewed, fully tested etc etc, but it *IS* interesting that 3 quite different Androgenetic Alopecia treatments (OSH101, t-flav & 6-bap) involve bone protein related therapy.
Speaking of peer-reviewed publication, studies etc, surely you're getting a bit more curious about RU and fluridil? Go on, admit it, just a little bit more curious
HairlossTalk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 6
Shhhh, don't tell anyonefunkster said:Speaking of peer-reviewed publication, studies etc, surely you're getting a bit more curious about RU and fluridil? Go on, admit it, just a little bit more curious
HairLossTalk.com
G
Guest
Guest
HairLossTalk.com whats your hair situation? Dont you have a full head of hair now? I remember you saying you stopped your thinning. What do you use and how long have you used it? How long have you maintained the hair that you had when you started treatment?
HairlossTalk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 6
Hi Shivs -
To the naked eye, and because I get my hair cut in a way that aids it, and because I brush it forward and messy, I look like I have a full head of hair. Im basically at this point dealing with thinning on my right temple and across the first two inches in the front, which is progressing very slowly.
Im using Topical spironolactone and Revivogen for now, as I was a great responder to Propecia, and these two theoretically do a decent job of mimicking the effect of Propecia when used in combination.
I go through sheds where everything thins and then thickens back up. My family history (assuming mothers father, which probably is just an old wives tale) dictates that I will probably maintain thick hair in all areas except the front two inches. So that's been my focus and will remain my focus. Whole family has very highly receded hairlines by the time they hit 60 or so.
Im banking on this because on my fathers side everyone's about 80% bald on top. Fingers crossed.
HairLossTalk.com
To the naked eye, and because I get my hair cut in a way that aids it, and because I brush it forward and messy, I look like I have a full head of hair. Im basically at this point dealing with thinning on my right temple and across the first two inches in the front, which is progressing very slowly.
Im using Topical spironolactone and Revivogen for now, as I was a great responder to Propecia, and these two theoretically do a decent job of mimicking the effect of Propecia when used in combination.
I go through sheds where everything thins and then thickens back up. My family history (assuming mothers father, which probably is just an old wives tale) dictates that I will probably maintain thick hair in all areas except the front two inches. So that's been my focus and will remain my focus. Whole family has very highly receded hairlines by the time they hit 60 or so.
Im banking on this because on my fathers side everyone's about 80% bald on top. Fingers crossed.
HairLossTalk.com
G
Guest
Guest
this is the response of kurogrow.
"We are planning to stock Lion's Mouhatsuryoku Innovate (6-BAP)
We will email you when we are ready to ship. It will be
the 2nd or 3rd week of October at the earliest.
Price is not known yet.
http://www.kurogrow.com/
The site is in Japanese, so you need to translate it.
"We are planning to stock Lion's Mouhatsuryoku Innovate (6-BAP)
We will email you when we are ready to ship. It will be
the 2nd or 3rd week of October at the earliest.
Price is not known yet.
http://www.kurogrow.com/
The site is in Japanese, so you need to translate it.
G
Guest
Guest
For those of you on this site who are interested in 6-BAP....yes the both of you.
Dear Sir Zimmy
Thank you for your enquiry about Lion Mouhatsuryoku
Innovate.
We will start shipping Mouhatsuryoku Innovate
internationally on October 14.
Mouhatsuryoku Innovate (200mL) including shipping to the
USA or Europe via EMS (Express Mail Service: Takes 4 to 7
days to the USA or Europe):
1 bottle 8,200 yen. ($75)
2 bottles 15,000 yen.
3 bottles 21,800 yen.
4 bottles 28,900 yen.
5 bottles 35,500 yen.
6 bottles 42,200 yen.
One bottle lasts 100 days if you use 2mL a day.
If you would like to pay by Credit Card, please let us
know your card info in two separate emails(first 8 digits
and last 8 digits) for security reasons. We accept VISA,
Master, Amex, Diners, and JCB.
Card Brand:
Card number:
Name:
Exp:
If you would like to pay by Paypal, our account is:
manatee@sannet.ne.jp for CREDIT CARD funded payments.
(paypal@kurogrow.com for Paypal or BANK funded payments only)
You can pay in Yen.
-- Shipping Address
First Name:
Last Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
Country:
Phone:
We will not be responsible for any duties or customs problems.
Press Release
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/html/2003_033.htm
Japanese
http://www.l-innovate.jp/
http://www.lion.co.jp/press/2003076.htm
Contact Lion Co.
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/contact/html/f_etcfrm.htm
Dear Sir Zimmy
Thank you for your enquiry about Lion Mouhatsuryoku
Innovate.
We will start shipping Mouhatsuryoku Innovate
internationally on October 14.
Mouhatsuryoku Innovate (200mL) including shipping to the
USA or Europe via EMS (Express Mail Service: Takes 4 to 7
days to the USA or Europe):
1 bottle 8,200 yen. ($75)
2 bottles 15,000 yen.
3 bottles 21,800 yen.
4 bottles 28,900 yen.
5 bottles 35,500 yen.
6 bottles 42,200 yen.
One bottle lasts 100 days if you use 2mL a day.
If you would like to pay by Credit Card, please let us
know your card info in two separate emails(first 8 digits
and last 8 digits) for security reasons. We accept VISA,
Master, Amex, Diners, and JCB.
Card Brand:
Card number:
Name:
Exp:
If you would like to pay by Paypal, our account is:
manatee@sannet.ne.jp for CREDIT CARD funded payments.
(paypal@kurogrow.com for Paypal or BANK funded payments only)
You can pay in Yen.
-- Shipping Address
First Name:
Last Name:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
Country:
Phone:
We will not be responsible for any duties or customs problems.
Press Release
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/press/html/2003_033.htm
Japanese
http://www.l-innovate.jp/
http://www.lion.co.jp/press/2003076.htm
Contact Lion Co.
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/contact/html/f_etcfrm.htm
G
Guest
Guest
glad you find my honourary title ammusing! It was given for my `services` to the ladies.
:moon: :laugh:
:moon: :laugh:
Japanbound
Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Anyone received this product yet? The original PR was covered here..
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... minopurine
Anyway, I am moving to Japan and will definetely be trying this product out. Lion corp from what I gather is a large company.. I doubt this is another hair genesis scam.. could be though.. I'm not sure how I woul dutiilize this... If im already going ot use minoxidil and folligen this may be overkill.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... minopurine
Anyway, I am moving to Japan and will definetely be trying this product out. Lion corp from what I gather is a large company.. I doubt this is another hair genesis scam.. could be though.. I'm not sure how I woul dutiilize this... If im already going ot use minoxidil and folligen this may be overkill.
ikaponthus
Member
- Reaction score
- 0
It's for sale here:- http://www.genhair.com/
Cheap too.
Anyone got any other news about this? I'm thinking of ordering some.
Cheap too.
Anyone got any other news about this? I'm thinking of ordering some.
ikaponthus said:
The one from genhair.com is not the same one from the original manufacturer, check this:
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/products/html/pro_b005.htm
However, it seems that LION company is a big one in Japan:
Foundation: October 30, 1891
Establishment: September 1918
Employees: 5,721
Capital: ¥34,433M = US $301M
Sales: ¥309,514M = US$2.7B
http://www.lion.co.jp/en/company/html/com0301f.htm
I'm thinking of trying it :!:
Justlooking
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 1
Sounds like there is potential.. but I think im gonna wait until more is known
Japanbound
Member
- Reaction score
- 0
I have contacted them regarding ordering. I am willing to be a guinea pig on this one