Any one else ticked off about the economy?

[casperz]

I've been in a foul mood for the past few days and I realized
yesterday that it's becuase I'm so freakin pissed off about our economy.
I'm so tired of watching politicians that think they can solve this just sit on
their hands and provide no leadership while the entire economy melts down
in front of our eyes.

The more I look at things the more I believe that the worst has not even
begun. I expect the DOW will be around 4000 soon and I think job losses will
continue at the current rate through 2009. I would not be surprised to see
unemployment around 15% in six months.

I'm pissed that I don't see any sense of panic or change from the Obama
admin as promised. Instead the congress passes a pork filled stimulus
bill. Last year Obama said he was on top of this and would hit the ground
running, yet Geitner still has no staffers nominated much less approved. One
man cannot deal with this crisis. Those are just the what I'm pissed about
today, tomorrow will be something new I'm sure.

There is not a single glimmer of hope on the horizon that is going
to provide the force to pull us out of this and that is part of what pisses
me off the most. We are all so down on the economy that our future
will be a self fulfilling prophecy and become a downward spiral as things get
worse and worse. This is not the climate where we used to be able to do
anything. That allowed us to go to the moon, the climate that built the financial
capital of the world, the climate that allowed us to live better than any other
country. We've lost our MoJo and it ain't coming back any time soon. Now were
we are all just trying to hold on and that is petty sad and pathetic and that
pisses me off the most.

 

[king-]

I've been in a foul mood for the past few days and I realized
yesterday that it's becuase I'm so freakin pissed off about our economy.
I'm so tired of watching politicians that think they can solve this just sit on
their hands and provide no leadership while the entire economy melts down
in front of our eyes.

The more I look at things the more I believe that the worst has not even
begun. I expect the DOW will be around 4000 soon and I think job losses will
continue at the current rate through 2009. I would not be surprised to see
unemployment around 15% in six months.

I'm pissed that I don't see any sense of panic or change from the Obama
admin as promised. Instead the congress passes a pork filled stimulus
bill. Last year Obama said he was on top of this and would hit the ground
running, yet Geitner still has no staffers nominated much less approved. One
man cannot deal with this crisis. Those are just the what I'm pissed about
today, tomorrow will be something new I'm sure.

There is not a single glimmer of hope on the horizon that is going
to provide the force to pull us out of this and that is part of what pisses
me off the most. We are all so down on the economy that our future
will be a self fulfilling prophecy and become a downward spiral as things get
worse and worse. This is not the climate where we used to be able to do
anything. That allowed us to go to the moon, the climate that built the financial
capital of the world, the climate that allowed us to live better than any other
country. We've lost our MoJo and it ain't coming back any time soon. Now were
we are all just trying to hold on and that is petty sad and pathetic and that
pisses me off the most.

telll me about it im in toronto,canada and its HARD to get a job right now unless you had one already , people are getting laid off like crazy

if its like that here i can imagine how it is in the states

 

[iwantperfection]

Firstly americans never went to the moon lol.

People in uk and europe live as well as those in usa. Stupid comment. In fact theres alot more poverty there than europe. Thats the problem over there. Its cheesy and very righteous. Dont know why use all believe its like the planets promised land. To me the US is a country that should stop believing its own shite talk and realise things arent all about waving flags and shouting USA!

 

[Petchsky]

The recession is going to go on well in to 2010, and that's not just my opinion, but people like Warren Bufett.

I'm not so ticked off about the economy, but more on how it's structured, e.g fractional banking. Banks lending out money well in advance of what they have in reserve, asking for trouble. that ratio has just gone up and up as the years have gone by.

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried"

Couldn't agree more with Churchill on that one.


And this Churchill gem for my yanks friends "“You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.â€￾ :innocent: lol killer, the British government is incompetent though, so i'm not having a go.

 

[cuebald]

I'm kinda glad I work in a School, it's hard to get fired from a School unless you are grossly incompetant - you're not going to be made redundant for the firm making a loss this quarter, for example.

In one way I feel happy about this recession - fat cat b(w)ankers losing everything they own and don't deserve makes me smile.
On the other hand I feel very bad for the honest, hard working Average Joe losing his job and struggling to feed his family.

Hope it blows over soon, but I doubt it very much.
Look for a job in the public sector, and go without the HDTV, SUV, and other sh*t you don't need.

 

[CCS]

We hit 8% unemployment, but many of the employed people are taking pay cuts or are now working only part time. So 8% compared to 4% is misleading.

Obama keeps saying that it just takes a lot of time to undo the "8 years of damage" Bush did. OK, if that were true, wouldn't the stock market be slowly climbing? Or the unemployment rate slowing decreasing? I can see it taking time to return, but it should be improving, not taking the sharpest nose dives yet. The stimulus bills clearly are tanking the economy, and I hope people realize that by 2010.

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

I'm worried as hell. That idiot Obama is running a bigger deficit in ONE YEAR than Shrubya did his entire second term combined! :shock:

Barak has basically pulled all his chips down on betting that this "stimulus package" will work. It appears that it is not working, which, if true, will be an absolute disaster because every resource has been put towards this hail mary.

It is crazy how much of a joke all of Obama's "Change" and "Hope" propaganda was. Even crazier is that people bought it.

 

[The Gardener]

Obama keeps saying that it just takes a lot of time to undo the "8 years of damage" Bush did. OK, if that were true, wouldn't the stock market be slowly climbing? Or the unemployment rate slowing decreasing?

Ummm, no.

You think someone can undo 30 years of mismanagement in 8 weeks? Not quite logical.

I can see it taking time to return, but it should be improving, not taking the sharpest nose dives yet.

I can't. Its going to get much, MUCH worse. And it has nothing to do with the stimulus package or whatever else. It has to do with bank credit which has been significantly overleveraged, about 3 or 4 times higher than it should have been over the last decades, and problems associated with this have been continually ignored by past administrations of both parties. That put about a 20 trillion hole in this nation's working capital. That will take time to rebuild... especially given the fact that this nation perenially spends more than it earns, our personal savings rate having been next to nil for decades.

The stimulus bills clearly are tanking the economy, and I hope people realize that by 2010.

The stimulus bill is chump change compared to the dollar magnitude of the overall economy. Now I WOULD offer that its not the stimulus, but rather, the Treasury Secretary's inability to put together a cogent banking rescue plan that is REALLY driving things down. The stimulus is not even a trillion, but the banking system is a 30 to 40 trillion dollar trough of seed capital, that is pretty much not operating anymore.

But, the fact of the matter is that the Treasury secretary hasn't been able to offer a coherent banking system repair strategy because the fact is that there is none to be offered. The only solution would be to let the banking system go bankrupt, or, nationalize the banks.... in which case it would be the US government needing to provide the 30 to 40 trillion in lending facilities that the banks used to offer... which isn't going to happen, because personal, corporate, and government borrowings in this country are all through the roof. And THAT is the crux of the problem. Creating "new money to lend" is like pushing on a string when your average American person, business, and government are all already in debt to their eyeballs, and aren't creditworthy enough to lend to EVEN if the banks were wanting to lend that money.

Barak has basically pulled all his chips down on betting that this "stimulus package" will work. It appears that it is not working, which, if true, will be an absolute disaster because every resource has been put towards this hail mary.

It's going to be an absolute disaster regardless of whether or not there is a stimulus, or not. The stimulus buys a little time.... and maybe they think that time is the answer, if so then I'd understand it... but I don't think they can buy enough time to allow all the bad debts to be cleared and all of the banks to become recapitalized again. No way.

I think the stimulus SHOULD be done as an infrastructure investment. Use the low labor rates (from otherwise unemployed folks) and low deflated commodity prices to build some infrastructure on the cheap that will reap dividends later... such as the Hoover Dam was back in the 30s. It allows us to repair some stuff at a deep discount, and it helps keep some people employed... but its not a cure for the overall situation.

 

[ali777]

In one way I feel happy about this recession - fat cat b(w)ankers losing everything they own and don't deserve makes me smile.
On the other hand I feel very bad for the honest, hard working Average Joe losing his job and struggling to feed his family.

That's not the right approach...

The governments are pumping money into the banking system, thus increasing the dept of the country. In the future, your government may not be able to pay decent salaries to civil servants.

In effect all your future tax payments are already mortgaged. I think in the next 10 years or so, most of the western governments will struggle with meeting the demands of the "social state", ie health and education budgets will have to be cut.

I think there are lots of "fat cats" out there who already sucked the system dry. They've made their money, they lost nothing. It's the tax payer that is losing money.

 

[CCS]

I say let them all declare bankruptcy if where needed, investigate each other for fraud, figure out who is credit worthy and who has the money to loan, and then move on from there. Someone has money, but is sitting on it because they don't know who is credit worthy, or which company the fed will bail out next. But once people know the bad debt it gone and the company they want to invest in won't go bankrupt, I bet they will invest and we can all get back to work. Our salaries might be low.

Now the fed can't declare bankruptcy, since that would be an act of war. But private businesses can. So that is another reason I don't like the fed taking all the debt. And for the fed to take the debt, who will they borrow it from? I doubt China will keep loaning us money. That is why I say the private companies should declare bankruptcy where needed. Let the people who lent money to bad companies learn from their mistakes. Don't punish the frugal people with them.

 

[CCS]

Gardener, you agree that Obama wants to nationalize everything? Do you think that is good? I think it would be very bad. It would mean my tax dollars would pay for the mistakes of washington beaurocrats who never ran a business in their lives.

 

[The Gardener]

No, I don't think he wants to nationalize everything, but that's not my immediate concern. My immediate concern is that overmanipulation of the markets right now is destroying them, destroying any faith in the pricing.

And frankly I agree with most all of what you said in your last few posts.

A couple blog posts here that echo the more cynical fears that I have:

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2239
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/arch ... ezzle.html

 

[TAINTED-MEAT]

CCS, you and I think alike. The Government will use money inefficiently, look at the USSR or any other socialist/communist regime. Businesses fail, but make way for leaner, more efficient businesses. Why not let the market decide the rates of different items? Do we want bread lines? And as for the comment about landing on the moon... I hope you weren't serious...

 

[Bryan]

Firstly americans never went to the moon lol.

Please explain what you mean.

 

[iwantperfection]

I like my conspiracy theories. if you read a conspiracy report on the apollo missions you will see that every photo has anomalies. Shadows are all wrong. Different mission photos show same mountains although allegedly different parts of the moon. One shot shows a guy with his back to the sun though his front is illuminated. Another pic shows fire.It is well known a flame is not visible on the moon due to the vaccum. Also in a vid clip seeing earth out 2windows of 2dif sides of the craft. i dont believe it.

 

[Bryan]

Surely you don't really believe that conspiracy theory, do you?

 

[iwantperfection]

From a purely physics point of view the shadow angles and lighting is totally wrong. If you study a proper report on it and study the pictures there are many anomalies. Now this may be due to image editing to glamorize the photos but the photos are wrong. I found one particularly amusing where the lumar lander is in the background and one side is in darkness due to shadow, though weirdly an american flag is miracously visible. I have studied the cold war and personally i think its why the US did it.

 

[Empire]

Bahahahahahaha!

You do understand.. this economy crisis that all of a sudden hit us without warning was "engineered" by a hidden group of bankers who have a "solution" within the next 2 years for you all.

Don't take my word for it.. But just remember this thread and remember this word: Amero.

 

[iwantperfection]

Just like the UK didnt give up the £ for the euro, the US woukdnt give up the dollar for the amero. That my friend will not happen. Did your egyptian Doctor tell you that?

 

[Empire]

Just like the UK didnt give up the £ for the euro, the US woukdnt give up the dollar for the amero. That my friend will not happen. Did your egyptian Doctor tell you that?

Yes, your sarcasm will save this world. It makes complete sense.

Except your forgetting one "unimportant fact", along the lines of George Bush signing the North American Union bill with the Canadian and Mexican President in late 2006. So technically it's already happened, whether you like it or not.

And this economy crisis is the "problem"... the "solution" is the Amero dollar.

But hey, what would a guy like me know.