- Reaction score
- 1,017
Hi Bryan;
Thank you for your response.
Sadly, Farrel banned me in his web-forum. You know my opinion about Farrel. He is intelligent and a hard-working guy, but he is quick-tempered as well. He know that the current theory about baldness is not perfect and don’t explain a lot of evidences. He thinks that Vit D and exposure to the sun could be implicated in hair loss and evolution. Sometimes resemble me the Ernie’s theory regarding body and scalp hair.
In my opinion, as in other persons, is necessary another point of view. Norwegian, a prolific and respected guy, writes:
“Saying that DHT is the cause of male pattern baldness is like saying bullets are the reason why people get killed. Of course it's the bullet from a gun that physically kills the person, but it's not the full reason behind the persons death.â€
And he conclude:
“If I were to research male pattern baldness i would start of in a TOTALLY different angel.â€
It is necessary develop other theories as Stephen Foote make. IMO, thought this gentleman agreed that women and men scalp hair are equals, with the same biology, failed his theory trying to explain the different incidence of common baldness between sexes.
It’s accepted the multifactorial etiology in male pattern baldness, but in order to obtain a safe and real preventive method it’s necessary establish the initial cause. My theory about sebum is hardly bound to androgens. Sebaceous gland is clearly regulated by androgens.
You wrote:
“One could reasonably assume that IF a topical antiandrogen were able to reduce the production of sebum by the sebaceous glands, it ought to be able to also affect the nearby dermal papilla which is the "control center" for hair growthâ€.
I don’t want discuss about a reference of “luxuriant†hair in people with Androgen Insensitivity. They are strange cases and the study about androgens is not finished. A clear example is your answer to my question:
Q. On the other hand, please have you a unequivocal test of the lack of evidence of androgens in scalp in prepubers?. I tried, but I failed to find it.
A. I don't have any hard PROOF of that, either.
Discover a real answer is vital in hair loss research. I hardly imagine why don’t be carried out a test?.
In a recent communication with prof. Christos Zouboulis from Germany give me a vague explanation
I have an important point I'd like to go over with you.
Serum DHT levels are often not reflective of tissue levels of DHT, for instance, in scalp, skin and in prostate tissue. There is a new area of hormone research called intracrinology, as opposed to endocrinology. Intracrinology studies the metabolism of hormones within cells. There could be elevated levels of DHT in scalp influencing hair loss while the amount in the blood could stay relatively normal. You are a very qualified expert in this area.
Yes, I am aware of these functions and have published on them several times.
Androgens stimulate the activity of sebaceous glands in vivo. DHT produced in the sebaceous gland is able to diffuse into the hair follicle. My question is when appear the androgens over the scalp, at early age or only past puberty? It is possible the biosynthesis of DHT in sebaceous gland from cholesterol?, and finally, there is any work similar at this (2), regarding the measurement of scalp sebum T and DHT before puberty?
Androgens appear at the skin surface with adrenarche. I have already work in the area mentioned above (local production of DHT by the sebaceous gland and effect on the hair follicle) and the manuscript is in press.
You wrote:
But are you now suggesting that pre-pubertal children somehow have lots of scalp androgens, despite their low systemic levels of androgens? Armando, I really can't figure you out...
Yes, this a good point of view. Androgens are vital for sebaceous gland and its secretion, sebum, is necessary for a healthy hair. Then, in my opinion, androgens are vital for hair growth. The crucial point is that androgens cannot reach the whole organism before puberty in order to don’t develop earlier sexual attributes. So it’s necessary a local area of influence, that can explain the developing of an asynchronous scalp hair as an “independent†organ.
OTOH, I don’t think that pre-pubertal children somehow have LOTS of scalp androgens, but only the necessary. Problems arrive when a there is an overproduction of androgens.
If I can get the human and financial resources I would like very much do research in this point: When appear the androgens in scalp?. This class of study could be useful: MK-386, an Inhibitor of 5a-Reductase Type 1, Reduces Dihydrotestosterone Concentrations in Serum and Sebum without Affecting Dihydrotestosterone Concentrations in Semen. Curiously this work was supported by a grant from Merck Research Laboratories
Finally, there was an intense investigation (*) about the relationship between sebum and hair loss, apart the investigations of Raymond Saboureaud in the 20’ of the late century. By the way, sebum is easily oxidized and changes its physical, chemical and biological properties passing the time.
Best regards
Armando
(*)
FLESCH P, GOLDSTONE SB.
Local depilatory action of unsaturated compounds; the effect of human sebum on hair growth.
J Invest Dermatol. 1952 Mar;18(3):267-87.
PMID: 14908201 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P, HUNT M.
Local depilatory action of some unsaturated compounds.
AMA Arch Derm Syphilol. 1952 Mar;65(3):261-9. No abstract available.
PMID: 14893951 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
POLEMANN G
[The depilatory effects of unsaturated compounds, as a contribution to the problem of alopecia.]
Dermatologica. 1954 Feb;108(2):98-108. Undetermined Language. No abstract available.
PMID: 13150803 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P, HUNT M.
Local depilatory action of some unsaturated compounds.
AMA Arch Derm Syphilol. 1952 Mar;65(3):261-9. No abstract available.
PMID: 14893951 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P
Hair loss from squalene.
Proc Soc Exp Biol Med. 1951 Apr;76(4):801-3. No abstract available.
PMID: 14844354 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P.
Inhibition of keratin formation with unsaturated compounds.
J Invest Dermatol. 1952 Nov;19(5):353-63. No abstract available.
PMID: 13000200 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P.
Hair loss from sebum.
AMA Arch Derm Syphilol. 1953 Jan;67(1):1-9. No abstract available.
PMID: 13007171 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
Thank you for your response.
Sadly, Farrel banned me in his web-forum. You know my opinion about Farrel. He is intelligent and a hard-working guy, but he is quick-tempered as well. He know that the current theory about baldness is not perfect and don’t explain a lot of evidences. He thinks that Vit D and exposure to the sun could be implicated in hair loss and evolution. Sometimes resemble me the Ernie’s theory regarding body and scalp hair.
In my opinion, as in other persons, is necessary another point of view. Norwegian, a prolific and respected guy, writes:
“Saying that DHT is the cause of male pattern baldness is like saying bullets are the reason why people get killed. Of course it's the bullet from a gun that physically kills the person, but it's not the full reason behind the persons death.â€
And he conclude:
“If I were to research male pattern baldness i would start of in a TOTALLY different angel.â€
It is necessary develop other theories as Stephen Foote make. IMO, thought this gentleman agreed that women and men scalp hair are equals, with the same biology, failed his theory trying to explain the different incidence of common baldness between sexes.
It’s accepted the multifactorial etiology in male pattern baldness, but in order to obtain a safe and real preventive method it’s necessary establish the initial cause. My theory about sebum is hardly bound to androgens. Sebaceous gland is clearly regulated by androgens.
You wrote:
“One could reasonably assume that IF a topical antiandrogen were able to reduce the production of sebum by the sebaceous glands, it ought to be able to also affect the nearby dermal papilla which is the "control center" for hair growthâ€.
I don’t want discuss about a reference of “luxuriant†hair in people with Androgen Insensitivity. They are strange cases and the study about androgens is not finished. A clear example is your answer to my question:
Q. On the other hand, please have you a unequivocal test of the lack of evidence of androgens in scalp in prepubers?. I tried, but I failed to find it.
A. I don't have any hard PROOF of that, either.
Discover a real answer is vital in hair loss research. I hardly imagine why don’t be carried out a test?.
In a recent communication with prof. Christos Zouboulis from Germany give me a vague explanation
I have an important point I'd like to go over with you.
Serum DHT levels are often not reflective of tissue levels of DHT, for instance, in scalp, skin and in prostate tissue. There is a new area of hormone research called intracrinology, as opposed to endocrinology. Intracrinology studies the metabolism of hormones within cells. There could be elevated levels of DHT in scalp influencing hair loss while the amount in the blood could stay relatively normal. You are a very qualified expert in this area.
Yes, I am aware of these functions and have published on them several times.
Androgens stimulate the activity of sebaceous glands in vivo. DHT produced in the sebaceous gland is able to diffuse into the hair follicle. My question is when appear the androgens over the scalp, at early age or only past puberty? It is possible the biosynthesis of DHT in sebaceous gland from cholesterol?, and finally, there is any work similar at this (2), regarding the measurement of scalp sebum T and DHT before puberty?
Androgens appear at the skin surface with adrenarche. I have already work in the area mentioned above (local production of DHT by the sebaceous gland and effect on the hair follicle) and the manuscript is in press.
You wrote:
But are you now suggesting that pre-pubertal children somehow have lots of scalp androgens, despite their low systemic levels of androgens? Armando, I really can't figure you out...
Yes, this a good point of view. Androgens are vital for sebaceous gland and its secretion, sebum, is necessary for a healthy hair. Then, in my opinion, androgens are vital for hair growth. The crucial point is that androgens cannot reach the whole organism before puberty in order to don’t develop earlier sexual attributes. So it’s necessary a local area of influence, that can explain the developing of an asynchronous scalp hair as an “independent†organ.
OTOH, I don’t think that pre-pubertal children somehow have LOTS of scalp androgens, but only the necessary. Problems arrive when a there is an overproduction of androgens.
If I can get the human and financial resources I would like very much do research in this point: When appear the androgens in scalp?. This class of study could be useful: MK-386, an Inhibitor of 5a-Reductase Type 1, Reduces Dihydrotestosterone Concentrations in Serum and Sebum without Affecting Dihydrotestosterone Concentrations in Semen. Curiously this work was supported by a grant from Merck Research Laboratories
Finally, there was an intense investigation (*) about the relationship between sebum and hair loss, apart the investigations of Raymond Saboureaud in the 20’ of the late century. By the way, sebum is easily oxidized and changes its physical, chemical and biological properties passing the time.
Best regards
Armando
(*)
FLESCH P, GOLDSTONE SB.
Local depilatory action of unsaturated compounds; the effect of human sebum on hair growth.
J Invest Dermatol. 1952 Mar;18(3):267-87.
PMID: 14908201 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P, HUNT M.
Local depilatory action of some unsaturated compounds.
AMA Arch Derm Syphilol. 1952 Mar;65(3):261-9. No abstract available.
PMID: 14893951 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
POLEMANN G
[The depilatory effects of unsaturated compounds, as a contribution to the problem of alopecia.]
Dermatologica. 1954 Feb;108(2):98-108. Undetermined Language. No abstract available.
PMID: 13150803 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P, HUNT M.
Local depilatory action of some unsaturated compounds.
AMA Arch Derm Syphilol. 1952 Mar;65(3):261-9. No abstract available.
PMID: 14893951 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P
Hair loss from squalene.
Proc Soc Exp Biol Med. 1951 Apr;76(4):801-3. No abstract available.
PMID: 14844354 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P.
Inhibition of keratin formation with unsaturated compounds.
J Invest Dermatol. 1952 Nov;19(5):353-63. No abstract available.
PMID: 13000200 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]
FLESCH P.
Hair loss from sebum.
AMA Arch Derm Syphilol. 1953 Jan;67(1):1-9. No abstract available.
PMID: 13007171 [PubMed - OLDMEDLINE for Pre1966]